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Old 02-15-2014, 11:14 AM
 
17,596 posts, read 9,379,565 times
Reputation: 12032

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
This was not a pay or benefit issue. This was an attempt to form a works council which would have made for a better system to run the plant. At no time did the issue of wages or bennies come up.
It's certainly true that the UAW presented this "Form a Union" deal as a "new" type of Union that would be a "Works Council" -- but that's not even possible under US Labor Law as it stands today. At the end of the day -- it wasn't going to matter what the UAW promised those workers, once they voted for a Union then they were going to be stuck with it. Volkswagen would have never invited the UAW in if it were possible to set up a "Works Council" in the first place - I'm guessing they bought into promises by the UAW to get a new law passed, or maybe a new "rule" by the Labor Relations Board that would give a "waiver" of some sort to the VW plant in Chattanooga, TN.

Unions are about dues .... PERIOD. Dues translates to big money and political power.
The issues between employers and Unions are rarely centered on wages & bennies, except for the recent arguments about employee contributions to both pensions and Medical Insurance. The main issue (and most damaging item to the employer) is almost always the "Work Rules".

Private Sector Unions are shrinking in the USA and have been for years - instead of Modernizing the Unions, they rabble rouse about the Past Days of Glory. They are much like the NAACP, who likes to pretend that we are still living in the days of slavery or in the days of Jim Crow laws. Public Sector Unions are headed off a cliff - way too many un-funded pension plans in way too many States. It's going to be a disaster when that CAN they have all been kicking hits a Brick Wall and bounces back on them. The goal for Union Leadership appears to be "get mine while I can" and "hope I can hide when the poop hits the fan". The only way this will ever improve is through the membership that appears either asleep or afraid to speak out. I feel sorry for those members, but they have to start taking some responsibility and attempt to save what can be saved. Nobody can do it for them.

In the meantime - why would anyone want to buy a ticket on this Titanic?

 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 11,038,384 times
Reputation: 14180
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
If people would empower the unions, they'd work better.

Even still, having one is better than not having one at the end of the day.
That is not my opinion. I believe NOT having one is better, because on payday there is 2 hours more pay on my check.
I have worked as a union member, open shop contract.
I have worked as a union member, closed shop contract.
I have worked as a NON union member, open shop contract.
I have worked as a NON union member in a Right-To-Work state.
I have worked Salaried-Exempt in a closed shop.
As a working union member, what benefit did I get from membership? STRIKES!
At my retirement, what benefit did I get from the union dues I paid? NOTHING!
I had a great deal more from the Employee Stock Option Plan that I had as Salaried-Exempt!

IMO, the VW employees did the right thing!
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:19 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,093,612 times
Reputation: 3884
Someone already took the auto bailout, in which the unions got a piece of the pie and bonafide bondholders got shoved to the back of the line. So, I'll just mention the shameful behavior and actions of the unions in Wisconsin. And of course the caring teacher's union striking in chicago. No, no hardball tactics any longer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Unions have changed alot since the 1990's, they've been forced to. "Hardball tactics" are not the standard way of doing business anymore, and if they were, unions would be extinct. They are on life support as it is, but lets remember, the decent pay offered by employers to non union line workers is a direct result of what the United Auto Workers was able to fight for 80 years ago, and remain fighting for today, it's not because employers are altruistic and care for their employees.

I don't know any specifics about this particular facility in Chattanooga, but VW is a probably a good employer, and workers didn't want the structure and organization of the UAW in their plant (at least 51% of them didn't) and I respect that decision.

Unions are not without fault, but they afford the workers certain protections, and the business climate in this facility is probably a lot less contentious between mgt. and the shop than it is in most other plants of this size. I'm guessing some thought the UAW might change this. So they bypassed on the protections and representation that the UAW would bring them. Let's hope the climate don't change in this facility, cause there are no protections afforded the workers that a central bargaining agreement would give them.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,607,764 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
Someone already took the auto bailout, in which the unions got a piece of the pie and bonafide bondholders got shoved to the back of the line. So, I'll just mention the shameful behavior and actions of the unions in Wisconsin. And of course the caring teacher's union striking in chicago. No, no hardball tactics any longer.
The "shameful" actions of the unions in Wisconsin? Trying to recall a Governor that was trying to break them? You deny them this right in fighting for their existence?

I don't find that shameful at all. If someone came to my workplace and threatened its existence, I would fight back as well. It's called Democracy, the same as the vote in this Volkswagen plant. Deal with it

Unions are under assault by Republicans, and anyone making a living wage is under attack by Republicans. The rich continue to get richer in this country, and the poor continue to get poorer, and much of this is made possible by one political party, the Republican Party.

Strikes and recall votes are nothing if you are talking "hardball tactics", what's hardball is being told your pay is going to be cut in half or you won't have a job.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:28 AM
 
Location: CA
1,716 posts, read 2,511,412 times
Reputation: 1870
Unions are LEECHES seeking HOSTS. Period.

If unions were successful at 'labor' they would run their own businesses - but why produce if you can SUCK the productivity of others?

Unions are vagrant sub-governments (taxing and regulating others).
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,787 posts, read 8,277,518 times
Reputation: 8596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
It's certainly true that the UAW presented this "Form a Union" deal as a "new" type of Union that would be a "Works Council" -- but that's not even possible under US Labor Law as it stands today. At the end of the day -- it wasn't going to matter what the UAW promised those workers, once they voted for a Union then they were going to be stuck with it. Volkswagen would have never invited the UAW in if it were possible to set up a "Works Council" in the first place - I'm guessing they bought into promises by the UAW to get a new law passed, or maybe a new "rule" by the Labor Relations Board that would give a "waiver" of some sort to the VW plant in Chattanooga, TN.

Unions are about dues .... PERIOD. Dues translates to big money and political power.
The issues between employers and Unions are rarely centered on wages & bennies, except for the recent arguments about employee contributions to both pensions and Medical Insurance. The main issue (and most damaging item to the employer) is almost always the "Work Rules".

Private Sector Unions are shrinking in the USA and have been for years - instead of Modernizing the Unions, they rabble rouse about the Past Days of Glory. They are much like the NAACP, who likes to pretend that we are still living in the days of slavery or in the days of Jim Crow laws. Public Sector Unions are headed off a cliff - way too many un-funded pension plans in way too many States. It's going to be a disaster when that CAN they have all been kicking hits a Brick Wall and bounces back on them. The goal for Union Leadership appears to be "get mine while I can" and "hope I can hide when the poop hits the fan". The only way this will ever improve is through the membership that appears either asleep or afraid to speak out. I feel sorry for those members, but they have to start taking some responsibility and attempt to save what can be saved. Nobody can do it for them.

In the meantime - why would anyone want to buy a ticket on this Titanic?
This was an attempt to modernize the union concept.

You are not stuck with a union when you vote one in. If at the end of the contract the employees do not want the union they get to vote them out, costing nothing as the NLRB comes in to run the vote as it did in this case.
VW remained neutral in the matter.
The Union is not allowed to promise anything except to represent the employee.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:32 AM
 
5,064 posts, read 5,755,057 times
Reputation: 4776
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
heh. In the good 'ol south, there are no jobs, In Tenn. you have to be white and poor to be privileged enough to work in a "right to work " (aka fire w/o cause ) state.

I see the OP still has her hatred of transplants and northerners going strong. Same reason home "skoolin" is so popular in the good old south.

They pay schoolteachers 25k in Tennessee. The economy is abysmal.

Ignorance has led them to being the largest takers of WIC, and Medicaid for unmarried Appalachians, no husband or job, no income.

"And that's what I lobe about the South". an old song.



Redneck lady disses Obama - YouTube
What in the heck are you talking about? I don't hate transplants. I am a transplant to Nashville. Pretty much all of my neighbors are Nissan execs who are transplants from CA and MI.

As someone as already pointed out, you just completely lied about teacher salaries. And the rest of your post is just nonsensical.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,639,535 times
Reputation: 25817
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
You can lead a horse to water....

The company wanted the union on the board the way they have it in Germany.

LMAO..only in America.
Well, Tennessee anyway. Nuff said. No offense.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 20,034,371 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelva View Post
Are you thinking the union isn't political?
No, but I don't believe in moral relativism, and that means the union's political leanings do not make it any less morally reprehensible for Corker to stick his fat nose in.

Last edited by bobtn; 02-15-2014 at 11:59 AM..
 
Old 02-15-2014, 11:47 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 1,776,758 times
Reputation: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
The "shameful" actions of the unions in Wisconsin? Trying to recall a Governor that was trying to break them? You deny them this right in fighting for their existence?

I don't find that shameful at all. If someone came to my workplace and threatened its existence, I would fight back as well. It's called Democracy, the same as the vote in this Volkswagen plant. Deal with it

Unions are under assault by Republicans, and anyone making a living wage is under attack by Republicans. The rich continue to get richer in this country, and the poor continue to get poorer, and much of this is made possible by one political party, the Republican Party.

Strikes and recall votes are nothing if you are talking "hardball tactics", what's hardball is being told your pay is going to be cut in half or you won't have a job.
This made me chuckle. Thanks, I needed one today.
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