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Old 02-15-2014, 01:05 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
When the NLRB finds the UNTRUE rumors possibly influenced the first vote, it will have no option other than to nullify the first vote.
Again, I have saw no rumors. I saw where he publicly made statements.

Quote:
It is the same reason one cannot yell fire falsely in a crowded theatre..without facing prosecution.

I am stunned Corker was this blatantly stupid.
I don't think there is any law addressing being stupid here.

 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,078 posts, read 51,239,172 times
Reputation: 28324
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
But American unions are not like German work councils.
The UAW isn't going to change.
Agreed. American unions grew out of abuse of labor by management. They were and often remain, confrontational and defensive. I worked with unions for years as an engineering project manager. I have mixed opinions. The wages did not matter that much and we appreciated the skills, training, and experience of the union trades. But the work rules often interfered with doing a job efficiently. Cooperation of worker organizations and management would be a plus, but it will be hard to achieve because, in our system, in our B-schools and such of which I am a graduate, organized labor is held in low regard and treated as a threat to profit, and workers distrust management and see profit as a threat to their welfare. There is so little dialog going on. I don't know much about the VW vote, but it appears it was backed by management in an effort to tone down the conflict and work cooperatively as in Europe. If that is the case, it is too bad it failed.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:15 PM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,064,273 times
Reputation: 3884
The point is that getting a refund is dumb;
A) You are giving a free loan to something else; the fed gov

B) You have an opportunity cost in not having the money available to you

Pretty basic stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Yes I do. Your point?
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:20 PM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,064,273 times
Reputation: 3884
It is difficult for those who focus on their belly buttons and fairness everyday to really get the basics of economics. Even pretty simple minds can grasp that what real cost of living is, from place to place. If I'm not mistaking, some middle Tennessee posters here emigrated from other, higher cost areas of the country, so one would think they would get it. Really get it. But, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
Why is it that (almost) no one on this site understands how cost of living works?

Median starting teacher salary in Tennessee is $34,098, for the entire country it is $36,141.

The cost of living in Tennessee is 90.2%.

$34,098/.902= $37,803. So teachers starting out make more than the national average relative to cost of living in Tennessee.

Now let's compare that to some "rich" northern states:

New York= $43,839 and cost of living is 136.4%

$43,839/1.364= $32,140

Connecticut= $42,924 and cost of living is 132.6%

$42,924/1.326= $32,371

Maryland= $43,235 and cost of living is 119.9%

$43,235/1.199= $36,059

New Jersey= $48,631 and cost of living is 130.0%

$48,631/1.300= $37,408

Massachusetts= $40,600 and cost of living is 122.1%

$40,600/1.221= $33,251

NEA - 2012-2013 Average Starting Teacher Salaries by State
Cost of Living Annual Average 2013

Calling southern states "poor" because their nominal salaries are lower than in other places is like saying Americans were poor in 1990 because the median household income was only $28k.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:32 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
When the NLRB finds the UNTRUE rumors possibly influenced the first vote, it will have no option other than to nullify the first vote.

It is the same reason one cannot yell fire falsely in a crowded theatre..without facing prosecution.

I am stunned Corker was this blatantly stupid.
This is fascinating - how do you suppose that the NLRB is going to "find" that the vote was "influenced" by Corker or anyone else? You are aware that no 'anti-union information was even allowed in the VW plant before the vote ....... right? How will they do this "nullify" business?

As for "nullifying" a vote .... WOW!!!
Are you ready for any Government entity to start "nullifying" votes in the USA?
The NLRB ran this election - they are going to "nullify" an election they were in charge of just because they don't like the outcome? There is a lot of slippery on that slope - I doubt even the O-Team will go there. Interesting that their minions support such actions.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:44 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
This was an attempt to modernize the union concept.

You are not stuck with a union when you vote one in. If at the end of the contract the employees do not want the union they get to vote them out, costing nothing as the NLRB comes in to run the vote as it did in this case.
VW remained neutral in the matter.
The Union is not allowed to promise anything except to represent the employee.
Any attempt by Unions to "modernize the Union concept" has got to start with the National Labor Relations Board and Congress. They haven't done that and are not likely to do that. Are you convinced that the UAW would have supported the "Work Council" system and agreed to not bargain over wages and agreed to no strikes? A very key component of the "Work Council" system is the Employer participation on the Board. Think the UAW would go for that? The Board is funded by the Employer, that's against USA Labor Law. You can't just suddenly 'mesh' two very different systems together without a real plan in place ..... the UAW was big on promises and short on a PLAN to implement those promises. There was a lot of "Just Trust Us", you will like a Union.

Sure - a Union can be voted out, but how often does that happen? Not very.

Chattanooga used to be known as a "Union Town" ..... it didn't work out well for them and it's a big reason why Tennessee became a Right to Work State.

Time and time again during the 70’s and 80’s, Chattanooga and Hamilton County were passed over by manufacturers because we were known as a ”Union Town”

Quote:
Does Hamilton County remember that it has taken almost two generations of work by our elected officials, many dedicated citizens and the Chamber to erase Chattanooga’s “Union Label”? Let us not forget due in large part to unions, Chattanooga lost thousands of jobs during the 70′s and 80′s; Combustion Engineering, US Pipe, Ross Meehan Foundry, Wheland Foundry (an automotive supplier of brake drums), and the list goes on and on. We must all recall the union members at Wheland Foundry went on strike during a critical period of time when the company was trying to restructure itself and save jobs. The union strike was the stake in the heart for Wheland. Thousands of jobs were lost, and the Wheland site lays as a barren reminder of what once was.

Remember, Tennesseans rejected broken union promises years ago when we voted to become a right-to-work state.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:49 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,777,825 times
Reputation: 893
As a career machine operator from Michigan who worked under a corrupt union and fer/**** teamsters contract lets put your comments In context. We produced junk because the American consumer demanded junk. See QS 9000 minimum requirements agreed upon by management AND union bosses



Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
There hasn't been labor trouble in years. They have UAW plants, like in Spring Hill, Tn where they've been working a long time without even having a contract.

The UAW accepted deep concessions to keep the industry afloat...even accepting a two tiered pay system.

The union isn't why the Big 3 had problems. They manufactured junk..that's why they had problems.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 02:01 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by boner View Post
As a career machine operator from Michigan who worked under a corrupt union and fer/**** teamsters contract lets put your comments In context. We produced junk because the American consumer demanded junk. See QS 9000 minimum requirements agreed upon by management AND union bosses
If consumers demanded junk we would still be driving Omni's as opposed to Corolla's.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 02:20 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,972,963 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
This is fascinating - how do you suppose that the NLRB is going to "find" that the vote was "influenced" by Corker or anyone else? You are aware that no 'anti-union information was even allowed in the VW plant before the vote ....... right? How will they do this "nullify" business?
Setting up 2nd votes occurs all the time, and is always a subjective decision. That includes elections they took a part in overseeing, as even in those, they cannot control undue outside influences.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,294 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
This is fascinating - how do you suppose that the NLRB is going to "find" that the vote was "influenced" by Corker or anyone else? You are aware that no 'anti-union information was even allowed in the VW plant before the vote ....... right? How will they do this "nullify" business?

As for "nullifying" a vote .... WOW!!!
Are you ready for any Government entity to start "nullifying" votes in the USA?
The NLRB ran this election - they are going to "nullify" an election they were in charge of just because they don't like the outcome? There is a lot of slippery on that slope - I doubt even the O-Team will go there. Interesting that their minions support such actions.
There are some labor experts who offered their opinion that there should be a revote because of Corkers threats to withhold incentives if the UAW wins, also some comments on VW's production line that were later denied by VW executives. A senator and legislature threatening to withhold taxpayer funding for a company based on their union representation, we are blazing new territory with that threat. Let the workers decide based the merits, one thing for a company to offer it's opinion but quite another for government representatives.
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