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Old 02-15-2014, 03:46 PM
27,307 posts, read 16,269,420 times
Reputation: 12102


Originally Posted by makaraka66 View Post
One is amused to see American conservatives cheering on the fact that some workers will not have union representation. So a question, if Volkswagen made it part of their employment package for hourly workers that they join the union what would the workers do ? Leave Volkswagen ? Or suck it up ?
So you advocate being forced into a union?

Old 02-15-2014, 03:47 PM
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,934,160 times
Reputation: 11259
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
It is difficult for those who focus on their belly buttons and fairness everyday to really get the basics of economics. Even pretty simple minds can grasp that what real cost of living is, from place to place. If I'm not mistaking, some middle Tennessee posters here emigrated from other, higher cost areas of the country, so one would think they would get it. Really get it. But, no.
Yep, I have turned down interviews for jobs in both Colorado and California that would have paid more.
Old 02-15-2014, 03:58 PM
17,501 posts, read 9,320,889 times
Reputation: 11960
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
There are some labor experts who offered their opinion that there should be a revote because of Corkers threats to withhold incentives if the UAW wins, also some comments on VW's production line that were later denied by VW executives. A senator and legislature threatening to withhold taxpayer funding for a company based on their union representation, we are blazing new territory with that threat. Let the workers decide based the merits, one thing for a company to offer it's opinion but quite another for government representatives.
The thought process of the Left continues to astound.

1. Senator Bob Corker did not threaten to withhold any incentives ...... he doesn't have anything to do with incentives as a US Senator. The incentives in question would be Tax incentives from the local and State authorities AND Corker has nothing to do with them. The supposed "threat" was a statement by some Tennessee CongressCritter - he said that he thought it would be difficult to get enough votes for more Tax Incentives if the VW workers voted to form a Union in the Right to Work State of Tennessee. He is probably correct, and it was not a threat to remove anything or even do anything to Volkswagen or their employees.

2. The Corker statement was that he had 'inside' information that the VW plant was likely to get the new CrossBlue in Tennessee, which would mean more jobs and an expansion of the plant -- Corker indicated that might not happen (which is totally a VW decision) if the workforce voted to let the UAW form a Union. Again ..... not a threat, he has no control of what VW does with their product line. VW said this CrossBlue stuff was not true, they are not ready to make any announcements about the CrossBlue production.

Those Labor experts only started calling for re-votes after the UAW lost ..... this Vote was tilted very much in the Union's favor. The Company invited them in, provided employee lists and wouldn't allow any anti-Union people in the plant or even give them access to the employee list for outside mailings. The German Metal Worker Union was working in tandem with the UAW.

"Blazing new territory" is a good definition for wanting 'overs' on a vote that was lost. It was a secret ballot - what are they going to do? Take each employee that voted into a room and go after them with rubber hoses to 'change' their vote?
Old 02-15-2014, 04:02 PM
12,638 posts, read 8,980,824 times
Reputation: 7458
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If its wrong its wrong.
Well, the chances of bobtn criticizing anyone other than a Republican are zero.
Old 02-15-2014, 04:05 PM
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,652,019 times
Reputation: 27720
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Offering to expand medicaid for Obama care is quite a bit different than a governing body threatening to withhold tax incentives with a union shop.

What DOJ threats?

Now why do you suppose that Corker and the Republican legislature made those threats, could it have been the Right to Work PAC that is interested in the workers, remember VW was neutral so why weren't the politicians neutral.
I'm reading different reports on this..was it opinion or direct threat ?
It depends which article you read.

Obama did indeed threaten states about expanded medicaid. It was not "offer".
The Supreme Court smacked him down or did you forget that ?

The UAW spent 2 years wooing that plant and VW even let them in the doors with open arms.
The comments from the workers that voted no is that they saw what happened with GM and didn't want to go down that path.
Old 02-15-2014, 04:44 PM
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,595,691 times
Reputation: 25817
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
The point is that getting a refund is dumb;
A) You are giving a free loan to something else; the fed gov

B) You have an opportunity cost in not having the money available to you

Pretty basic stuff.
IF you are good at saving money, then it's dumb. IF you are the type of person who would likely squander it then it's not so dumb.

There are few absolutes in life and this is certainly not one of them.
Old 02-15-2014, 05:52 PM
Location: Sarasota FL
6,864 posts, read 12,109,996 times
Reputation: 6745
I'll bet there were a lot of 'no' votes because workers wouldn't like their dues going to a political party they don't support. [and we know what party gets union money]
Old 02-15-2014, 06:19 PM
Location: Long Island
57,409 posts, read 26,374,759 times
Reputation: 15709
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I'm reading different reports on this..was it opinion or direct threat ?
It depends which article you read.

Obama did indeed threaten states about expanded medicaid. It was not "offer".
The Supreme Court smacked him down or did you forget that ?

The UAW spent 2 years wooing that plant and VW even let them in the doors with open arms.
The comments from the workers that voted no is that they saw what happened with GM and didn't want to go down that path.
UAW trying to recruit unions is one thing, public officials making threats is quite different.

Earlier this week, Tennessee Republican lawmakers said if the UAW was voted into
the Chattanooga plant, Volkswagen could lose millions of dollars in state incentives. In order to entice Volkswagen to build its new U.S. plant in Corker's hometown of Chattanooga, the state gave it about $580 million in incentives.
As Volkswagen workers vote, Tennessee senator ramps up anti-union talk | Reuters
Old 02-15-2014, 06:38 PM
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,804,974 times
Reputation: 4174
In past generations, unions did great work, resisting unscrupulous owners etc. and fighting for decent working conditions and workers' "rights". And they accomplished their goals. After they did all the fighting, bleeding, and dying, Congress then made laws mandating what the unions had achieved. Probably have to wonder how the unions felt about that - would have been nice if Congress had simply done that a few years earlier, BEFORE the unions had to rip their guts out, and save everybody a lot of trouble.

But now, unions have outgrown their usefulness. Unfortunately, they have turned to bleeding their companies, forcing outrageous wage scales, vacation schedules, retirement plans, etc., far beyond any reasonable and decent arrangements; and have been forcing comanies to cave to them or die. An example is the protests against Boeing opening a new plant in a state where union membership is NOT mandatory. The worthwhile things unions fought for so long ago, are still in place, and codified in Federal law, whether the plant is in (union) Washington State or (non-union) South Carolina. Forcing union membership now, is merely a way of forcing company-strangling perks and huge benefits rather than decent working conditions and wages (which the workers will get anyway).

Unions were good in their time. Since the things they fought for are now codified in Federal law, there is no more need for unions any more.
Old 02-15-2014, 06:51 PM
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,494 posts, read 7,492,673 times
Reputation: 2541
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Unchecked corporate power is just as destructive.

Which is why Germany has the type of union/business structure. Anyone remember Hiltler?
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