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Old 02-15-2014, 07:17 PM
 
5,064 posts, read 5,745,155 times
Reputation: 4776

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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
I'll bet there were a lot of 'no' votes because workers wouldn't like their dues going to a political party they don't support. [and we know what party gets union money]
That is true too. People voted no for a variety of reasons, but some of them did say they didn't want to be forced to give up 5% of their paychecks for automatic donations to politicians who support abortion and gun control. The unions crawling so firmly into bed with the Dems bit them in the ass in this vote.

 
Old 02-15-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,494 posts, read 7,493,308 times
Reputation: 2541
The UAW has always been ahead of the curve, politically speaking. It will take more time for people to understand what a German-style co-determination and works council entails.

Meanwhile, people conveniently forget that big companies tend migrate to "low-tax/high incentive" areas as frequently as one changes their underwear. (Where are the Tea-Partiers in this?!) The German style of union/business counteracts this.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,596 posts, read 18,237,546 times
Reputation: 15570
The democratic party does not support the unions anymore... they are now fighting for the rights of illegals not the american workers.. they constantly throw the unions under the bus.. Obamacare is taking away the power of the unions. The government is now the power over the people. No one will have any power as the government keeps making big power grabs.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 07:41 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,762,126 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
And apparently a loss for VW management. Not only do conservatives despise the working class they also despise the company that pays them.


They had a vote. Those that don't like the outcome, either adapt or become extinct.

In a Conservative world, only the strong survive, to make the nation stronger. No bailout for you!
 
Old 02-15-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,982,656 times
Reputation: 15937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
In past generations, unions did great work, resisting unscrupulous owners etc. and fighting for decent working conditions and workers' "rights". And they accomplished their goals. After they did all the fighting, bleeding, and dying, Congress then made laws mandating what the unions had achieved. Probably have to wonder how the unions felt about that - would have been nice if Congress had simply done that a few years earlier, BEFORE the unions had to rip their guts out, and save everybody a lot of trouble.

But now, unions have outgrown their usefulness. Unfortunately, they have turned to bleeding their companies, forcing outrageous wage scales, vacation schedules, retirement plans, etc., far beyond any reasonable and decent arrangements; and have been forcing comanies to cave to them or die. An example is the protests against Boeing opening a new plant in a state where union membership is NOT mandatory. The worthwhile things unions fought for so long ago, are still in place, and codified in Federal law, whether the plant is in (union) Washington State or (non-union) South Carolina. Forcing union membership now, is merely a way of forcing company-strangling perks and huge benefits rather than decent working conditions and wages (which the workers will get anyway).

Unions were good in their time. Since the things they fought for are now codified in Federal law, there is no more need for unions any more.
As a union member I will say that I do not agree with your post, although I understand where you are coming from.

Because of the union I feel that I have a stronger voice when it comes to things like salary, benefits, working conditions, etc. We have collective bargaining.

Employees of companies where there are no unions, I think, are weak and have no bargaining power at all. If one or two wronged workers have a criticism or a complaint, the company bosses will either ignore them or tell them to hit the road ... but when labor is organized it is harder to ignore their grievances.

BTW, I remember reading a report that stated that union employees tend to be more reliable, loyal to their employer, and have a better record of productivity than non-union employees.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 08:33 PM
 
7,540 posts, read 11,400,709 times
Reputation: 3675
I got this comment from an L.A Times article on this. How accurate is it for those familiar with unions in Europe?


Quote:
EU unions are much different than the UAW. In the EU, company shops invest in the stability of the company. During slow periods, the UNIONS avoid layoffs by cutting worker hours to preserve the workforce. Poor workers are disciplined or terminated by the UNION. In turn, the company develops training and intern programs for union workers. They also negotiate salaries based on global competition as well as operating margins.

That's why VW is so interested in establishing a similar model in the US. If successful, the "new" union culture would be the death of the UAW and its focus on collecting money and controlling political influence.


Volkswagen workers reject union at Chattanooga plant, a blow to UAW - latimes.com
 
Old 02-16-2014, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,385 posts, read 23,854,690 times
Reputation: 38882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It's not my comprehension, it's your communication skills.
Yes, because it's never a liberal's fault...perpetual victims.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,873 posts, read 25,016,103 times
Reputation: 28594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
BTW, I remember reading a report that stated that union employees tend to be more reliable, loyal to their employer, and have a better record of productivity than non-union employees.
I tend to believe union workers are more likely to stick around for the long haul. Non union employees tend to "jump ship" more often in search of better money and better opportunity. In a union environment, raises are structured where as, in non union outfits, the boss pays as little as possible to keep a worker around. And when they don't need that worker, like in the case of a down turn, the boss simply pitches the worker like last week's left overs.

I work in a trade where unions are almost extinct. Employers are constantly whining about the difficulty of finding competent and skilled workers. I never hear about that difficulty when it comes to the electrical or plumbing trades... Gee, I wonder why? Because bosses keep buying on the cheap, providing little training (cause expenses are big no nos) and why learn a trade that pays less than the rest? Young folks know they are better off fixing plugged up toilets or something.

So long as there is a perpetual tug of war with regards to the color of the collars, the company's best interests will take a back seat. So long as white collar management will seek to maximize their returns at the expense of their underlings, workers simply won't give a crap. They'll punch a clock, do their job with little motivation, and not really give a crap beyond that. The results are usually better when someone is enthused about the work, and quality is justly rewarded. If that is absent, you're simply going to get what you paid for.

And when it comes to unions sinking companies, there are plenty more examples of thugs in white collar management doing far worse. Look at what happened at Delphi about a decade ago. Criminal behavior designed to steal from the blue collar workers and their pensions. When it comes to the big 3, there were plenty of flaws with the designs that the union workers had no influence over. And it wasn't the blue collar workers who decided to shove large SUVs in the consumers faces at a time of rising fuel prices and cash stretched buyers.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 05:45 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,351,625 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I got this comment from an L.A Times article on this. How accurate is it for those familiar with unions in Europe?
EU unions are much different than the UAW. In the EU, company shops invest in the stability of the company. During slow periods, the UNIONS avoid layoffs by cutting worker hours to preserve the workforce. Poor workers are disciplined or terminated by the UNION. In turn, the company develops training and intern programs for union workers. They also negotiate salaries based on global competition as well as operating margins.

That's why VW is so interested in establishing a similar model in the US. If successful, the "new" union culture would be the death of the UAW and its focus on collecting money and controlling political influence.


I know this isn't your question but why does a company need any outside influence to do this? Were I work that is very close to how we do things and how we handled the economic slow down and there is no union.

The company does the firing or discipline but you have to try pretty hard outside of theft to get fired.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 05:56 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,351,625 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I tend to believe union workers are more likely to stick around for the long haul. Non union employees tend to "jump ship" more often in search of better money and better opportunity. In a union environment, raises are structured where as, in non union outfits, the boss pays as little as possible to keep a worker around. And when they don't need that worker, like in the case of a down turn, the boss simply pitches the worker like last week's left overs.
Where I work a person quitting is very rare. I think we have around 1500 employee's and if I had to guess maybe 2 a year quit. In my 20 years I personally only know 2. I know one regretted it.

Quote:
I work in a trade where unions are almost extinct. Employers are constantly whining about the difficulty of finding competent and skilled workers. I never hear about that difficulty when it comes to the electrical or plumbing trades... Gee, I wonder why? Because bosses keep buying on the cheap, providing little training (cause expenses are big no nos) and why learn a trade that pays less than the rest? Young folks know they are better off fixing plugged up toilets or something.
Our electricians are highly sought after when they retire. There is no problem for any of them to retire as soon as they can as work on the side is not a problem for them. Most make good side money while they are working also. I was never a big fan of working with electricity so I didn't take that route.

Current hourly wages for an electrician at work is somewhere around $33.

Quote:
So long as there is a perpetual tug of war with regards to the color of the collars, the company's best interests will take a back seat. So long as white collar management will seek to maximize their returns at the expense of their underlings, workers simply won't give a crap. They'll punch a clock, do their job with little motivation, and not really give a crap beyond that. The results are usually better when someone is enthused about the work, and quality is justly rewarded. If that is absent, you're simply going to get what you paid for.
Management where I work has a nice chunk of their wages tied to the safety of those working the floor. If someone gets hurt their pay goes down. They do not hide injuries because of this either. If you are caught hiding an injury as a supervisor you will be fired.

Quote:
And when it comes to unions sinking companies, there are plenty more examples of thugs in white collar management doing far worse. Look at what happened at Delphi about a decade ago. Criminal behavior designed to steal from the blue collar workers and their pensions. When it comes to the big 3, there were plenty of flaws with the designs that the union workers had no influence over. And it wasn't the blue collar workers who decided to shove large SUVs in the consumers faces at a time of rising fuel prices and cash stretched buyers.
My first post notes that what happened at GM was hardly all the fault of the union. I noted earlier where my son has a great benefit package in his union job. He just hopes that they can keep the Obama administration from ruining it for them.

He went Friday to interview with another company. He has been traveling a lot out of state and was told that with this company he could stay local. Non union. Less pay and no benefits. (unless you pay extra for them). He turned them down.

So what is my point? The same as I make in many. Generalizations make for poor arguments.
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