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Old 02-15-2014, 03:57 AM
 
17,441 posts, read 9,261,206 times
Reputation: 11906

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VW built the first Foreign Auto plant in the USA ...... that was back in the late 70's in Pennsylvania. It was immediately Unionized and the strikes started within months. They were building the VW Rabbit (which was really the German Golf that is still in production) and the Jetta. VW deliberately went to a Right to Work State on their 2nd dance in the USA. The Japanese auto plants did well in the Right to Work States.

"No Money, No Bunny" was the UAW battle cry. There were many reasons this VW plant failed (a 2 Million square foot deserted plant still sits vacant), but the Unions certainly had a piece of that. The plant closed after 10 years (and over 20 strikes) and moved their operations to Puebla, Mexico. The VW plants in Puebla, MX are the largest auto plants in North America and the second largest VW operations outside of Germany.

Chattanooga, TN has it's own sordid history of Union strikes and company closings - these votes are not decided in a vacuum, there are long memories of other plant closings due to Union troubles. Germany uses a "work council" system with their labor forces - they want a "work council" at the TN plant, but US Labor Law won't allow it. The Unions control US Labor Laws, they have no interest in the German style work council. It's a "my way, or the highway" mentality with Unions.

It's a fact that the Republican politicians had plenty to say about this VW Union vote, but it's also true that the Democratic Party politicians also had a lot to say about. Let them all speak out, or shut them all up (which they can't do because of free speech) ..... but it's more than a bit disingenuous to pretend that the Liberals weren't also sticking their oar in the VW Union vote in Tennessee. Even the Prez got in on the action.

Obama weighs in on contentious union vote at Volkswagen plant - Reuters

Corker is correct about one thing ..... VW is going to build a new plant for what they are calling now the CrossBlue. It will either be in Puebla, MX or in Chattanooga, TN. Does it sound reasonable to anyone that VW would choose the newly unionized plant in Tennessee (especially with their horrible history with the UAW) or would they more likely to avoid that train wreck? I don't think you have to be a Rocket Scientist to work out that answer.

""We felt like we were already being treated very well by Volkswagen in terms of pay and benefits and bonuses," said Sean Moss, who voted against the UAW. "We also looked at the track record of the UAW. Why buy a ticket on the Titanic?""

Mr Moss has a good point and the majority of the VW employees in Chattanooga agreed with him in the vote to reject the UAW Union. Now the Union will probably sue, if they don't then the National Labor Relations Board is likely to attempt it. These thugs don't like the lose, especially when they were so sure they would win.

 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:11 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,939,644 times
Reputation: 2385
Unions are accepted where workers feel they are needed.

The UAW fought the good fight when the US automakers were making money and the workers wanted a good piece of the pie. The unions helped address a lot of problems in American manufacturing for the good of all woprkers.

VWUSA is not a sweat shop. It is a modern progressive thinking company. Getting workers in a struggling industry, in a struggling economy, to unionizes is a hard sell at the best.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:20 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,450,111 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
Don't know if MI can give the sweetheart deal that TN did to get VW here. I wonder, if in the long run, it will worth it here.
Well, let's see...

Last May, Ford said it would stop manufacturing in Australia, and General Motors announced late last year that it, too, would be closing down.

Now, Japanese automaker Toyota is the latest to shut down production in Australia. Toyota said its move to end production in the southern Australian state of Victoria was “heartbreaking.” Senior managers blamed high labor costs and a strong Australian dollar, which has made Toyota cars sold overseas more expensive.

The Australian government has also been unwilling to offer subsidies to offset higher costs for car manufacturers.

Pull Out of Japanese Car Maker Toyota Latest Hit To Australia's Economy

Yeah, looks like it will be worth it for at least a little while longer. It should be noted the VoA is the propaganda arm of the U.S. Government. So, what does your own government want you to learn about Australia losing its manufacturing base in regards to automakers? Quit being stupid, you're no longer a monopoly on planet Earth and you're in a global economy now so it's time to start thinking globally.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:21 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,060,434 times
Reputation: 3884
The German concept of Works Councils is quite different from gansta' style union thugism. Git educated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
You can lead a horse to water....

The company wanted the union on the board the way they have it in Germany.

LMAO..only in America.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:25 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,060,434 times
Reputation: 3884
Everything I have read is that VW believes U.S. regressive law requires unionization in order to implement their Works Council concept of participatory planning and decision making among blue and white collar employees and management. So, VW remained neutral, to were seen as tacitly approving/encouraging the unionization effort. Works Councils are a different animal from the adversarial approach of U.S. unions. Just look no further than the approach unions took in Wisconsin for the worst example of union thugism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Rye View Post
Why did VW want the plant unionized?
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:31 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,060,434 times
Reputation: 3884
Thank you. My pockets are big. Need more in them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SocialistAtheist View Post
WOO HOO! Capitalism survives another day to exploit the worker and line the pockets of rich pricks! WOO HOO!
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:36 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,060,434 times
Reputation: 3884
You mean like the way President Obama tried to pack the NLRB in non-recess appointments, which then messed directly in Boeing's effort to put a non-union plant in SC. Really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
All of their other plants are unionized, and unlike the contentious D3 of decades past, who were IMO not working with their employers, VW has had a mostly smooth history of labor/management relationships. On and off, there had been talk of this plant doubling in size due to new potential models, both short and long-term additions.

For our economy, and I say this despite greatly disliking the UAW in general due to their past, this may NOT be good news at all. From what I have read, there has been fear VW will gravitate future additional labor requirements to other facilities, with Mexican ones being more favored.

Our politicians should be ashamed of themselves for injecting their views into what should have been strictly a Free Market private sector decision.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:43 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,060,434 times
Reputation: 3884
This is a dispassionate and excellent analysis of the situation. Kib is a much better person than I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
VW built the first Foreign Auto plant in the USA ...... that was back in the late 70's in Pennsylvania. It was immediately Unionized and the strikes started within months. They were building the VW Rabbit (which was really the German Golf that is still in production) and the Jetta. VW deliberately went to a Right to Work State on their 2nd dance in the USA. The Japanese auto plants did well in the Right to Work States.

"No Money, No Bunny" was the UAW battle cry. There were many reasons this VW plant failed (a 2 Million square foot deserted plant still sits vacant), but the Unions certainly had a piece of that. The plant closed after 10 years (and over 20 strikes) and moved their operations to Puebla, Mexico. The VW plants in Puebla, MX are the largest auto plants in North America and the second largest VW operations outside of Germany.

Chattanooga, TN has it's own sordid history of Union strikes and company closings - these votes are not decided in a vacuum, there are long memories of other plant closings due to Union troubles. Germany uses a "work council" system with their labor forces - they want a "work council" at the TN plant, but US Labor Law won't allow it. The Unions control US Labor Laws, they have no interest in the German style work council. It's a "my way, or the highway" mentality with Unions.

It's a fact that the Republican politicians had plenty to say about this VW Union vote, but it's also true that the Democratic Party politicians also had a lot to say about. Let them all speak out, or shut them all up (which they can't do because of free speech) ..... but it's more than a bit disingenuous to pretend that the Liberals weren't also sticking their oar in the VW Union vote in Tennessee. Even the Prez got in on the action.

Obama weighs in on contentious union vote at Volkswagen plant - Reuters

Corker is correct about one thing ..... VW is going to build a new plant for what they are calling now the CrossBlue. It will either be in Puebla, MX or in Chattanooga, TN. Does it sound reasonable to anyone that VW would choose the newly unionized plant in Tennessee (especially with their horrible history with the UAW) or would they more likely to avoid that train wreck? I don't think you have to be a Rocket Scientist to work out that answer.

""We felt like we were already being treated very well by Volkswagen in terms of pay and benefits and bonuses," said Sean Moss, who voted against the UAW. "We also looked at the track record of the UAW. Why buy a ticket on the Titanic?""

Mr Moss has a good point and the majority of the VW employees in Chattanooga agreed with him in the vote to reject the UAW Union. Now the Union will probably sue, if they don't then the National Labor Relations Board is likely to attempt it. These thugs don't like the lose, especially when they were so sure they would win.
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentwoodgirl View Post
This was the UAW's best chance at unionization in the foreign, Southern auto factory. Volkswagen "gift wrapped" this vote for them, but the workers decided to vote the union down.
Good for the workers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GABESTA535 View Post
Tennessee Senator Bob Corker told the workers Volkwagen would receive no more state "incentives" if the workers unionized. It's pure extortion but what were they supposed to do?
And what are unions? Nothing but "pure extortion."

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
LOL The mob hasn't been around for quite sometime now. Keep living in the past though
Organized Crime in the US is alive and well, and OC still uses union slush funds to launder money.

Why don't you do a quick search of RICO cases in the last 6 months?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Perhaps, but you don't have to pay your boss to be abusive.

Touche!


Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Stock right winger answer: if you don't like abuse and unfair treatment, then quit or just shut up.
Uh, there are numerous avenues and venues at the local, county, State and "federal" level to address abuse or unfair treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
It's amazing to me it was voted down,...
You don't live in the Real World.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Nowhere in there did I say it was "okay to be abusive" now did I? No, I did not. But you go on with your strawman, you lefties are really good at that.
Straw Persons are the only thing they've got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Unions pay better and look after their employees. Sorry you don't agree.
Sure, let's protect and look after the lazy dope-smoking drunkard who rarely shows up, rarely shows up on time when he does show up, and then does nothing all day except injure other people and cause losses for the company.

Let's protect the wannabe-teacher having sex with students.

Let's protect the cops who violate everyone's civil rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creekcat View Post
Look for the result to be contested in court, as most of what the politcians said could be construed to be tampering.
It's not "tampering."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
They pay schoolteachers 25k in Tennessee. The economy is abysmal.
Bigoted beliefs are not qualified facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Quit being stupid, you're no longer a monopoly on planet Earth and you're in a global economy now so it's time to start thinking globally.
^^^ This ^^^

Gotta start thinking out of the box. Gotta become progressive and move into the Future. That means "federal" government getting out of the education business, and if necessary, doing away with teachers' unions.

The US should have moved into the 5th Level R&D Economy sometime in the 1990s. About 18%-20% of your GDP should come from R&D and not Manufacturing, or Healthcare, or Government.

With R&D jobs paying what high-skilled Manufacturing paid and even higher, there'd be no need to worry about Manufacturing or jobs leaving the US.

Business is Business whether it's global or not.

How do you find your way in Business? You offer a product or service that no one else does. Find yourself a niche. If you can't do that, then the product or service you offer needs to be better than what anyone else is offering and marketed competitively in price.

America cannot win the war in Manufacturing, so it needs to find something else to do...

...and it will just as soon as unions and government get the hell out of the way....


Mircea
 
Old 02-15-2014, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
Reputation: 27720
The UAW will not go down quietly. They will go kicking and screaming.
Their time is passed; they are not needed anymore in the US.

In a global economy where mfg can build anywhere they want, the last thing you want to see is a union saying "Gimme more money".
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