The Left destroys everything, always (abortion, socialism, liberal, Republicans)
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If you would be so kind to simply state your own principles, those are the principles of a far right extremist. Especially if you think the Republicans are moderate liberals, which is one of the funniest things I have read today.
So, what you're saying is that you have no idea what principles I hold. It didn't stop the name-calling, though.
You argued that the left wasn't interested in protecting our liberties. I pointed out where yours was a generalization. As I've pointed all through this thread and other where generalizations rarely make for a good argument.
It wasn't a generalization. It is a specific, ideological basis for the modern left to be antagonistic to individual freedom.
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Yes, the left as represented by the current administration is continuing and building upon the attacks on our freedoms largely started under the last administrations but others from the "left" like the ACLU are trying to combat those actions.
No, they're just trying to maintain their funding.
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I suppose it's not really fair to consider the ACLU of the left but that's how most have seemed to place them.
It's very obvious in what they chose to defend and not defend.
After moderates are asked which approach they lean towards, the overall ideological breakdown of the country divides into fairly neat left and right groupings with 47 percent of Americans identifying as progressive or liberal and 48 percent as conservative or libertarian and the rest unsure.
This makes no sense since Libertarians separate from Conservatives in likely as many areas as they over lap.
I am obeying my own words and meanings, i didnt say they were always interchangable, but at times they are. Are you really arguing that Liberal policies are not in aligned with the Democratic Party , conservative with Republican or are you really just nitpicking for the hell of it ?
No, they aren't.
The parties do not define the ideology, nor vice versa.
Parties seek self empowerment and supremacy of control. And the GOP is very much on the left because its leaders are in Washington DC, which is power-control-authoritarian-government-tax and spending centric.
No, they are on the left of the nation's political foundation - which is the center.
Here is the foundation:
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
And neither party has the slightest interest in that.
It wasn't a generalization. It is a specific, ideological basis for the modern left to be antagonistic to individual freedom.
I don't even think this is really true. They are not against individual freedoms but they indeed do refuse to condemn this administration in it's attacks against our freedoms. Is this any better than being against them? Maybe not.
The "far left" is speaking up and it's why the (D)'s aren't doing so well heading into the 2014 elections.
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No, they're just trying to maintain their funding.
LOL, whatever......let's argue that this was even true (it's not), why should I care why they do the right thing? Are you saying it's wrong to do the right thing to profit from it?
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It's very obvious in what they chose to defend and not defend.
For the last dozen years, it's been to fight further government control over our lives.
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Originally Posted by pnwmdk
No, they aren't.
The parties do not define the ideology, nor vice versa.
Parties seek self empowerment and supremacy of control. And the GOP is very much on the left because its leaders are in Washington DC, which is power-control-authoritarian-government-tax and spending centric.
yea, this conversation is done, the GOP is on the left ? Did you mean to say left of your positions ?
I don't even think this is really true. They are not against individual freedoms but they indeed do refuse to condemn this administration in it's attacks against our freedoms. Is this any better than being against them? Maybe not.
Irrelevant.
The very foundation of liberalism is the justification of taking from the individual and controlling the individual for the claimed purpose of benefiting the majority - to take from the individual to meet the goals of the collective ( really, the political class). This is wholly and completely incompatible with the notion of individuals being sovereign and having innate rights. The left says that individuals must surrender their individuality to the group's ( as defined by the politicians) interests. Leftists attempt to claim that keeping your own wages is "selfish" and immoral. Thus, it's moral foundation requires the abolition of the supremacy of the rights and freedoms of the individual.
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The "far left" is speaking up and it's why the (D)'s aren't doing so well heading into the 2014 elections.
They're in control. It's not about having kept silent. It's just who the D party has become and they now believe they can say (more or less) what they really want. It hasn't changed in 30 years, it's just the arrogance of power, to believe they have won, and they can now just impose whatever they want.
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LOL, whatever......let's argue that this was even true (it's not), why should I care why they do the right thing? Are you saying it's wrong to do the right thing to profit from it?
Of course it's true. The ACLU is big business.
I said nothing about them needing to keep the funders happy being bad. I'm just pointing out they pander, rather than stand on any discernible principle.
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For the last dozen years, it's been to fight further government control over our lives.
No, just to take certain high-profile cases.
For the most part, the ACLU is quite happy with the overbearing state.
The very foundation of liberalism is the justification of taking from the individual and controlling the individual for the claimed purpose of benefiting the majority - to take from the individual to meet the goals of the collective ( really, the political class). This is wholly and completely incompatible with the notion of individuals being sovereign and having innate rights. The left says that individuals must surrender their individuality to the group's ( as defined by the politicians) interests. Leftists attempt to claim that keeping your own wages is "selfish" and immoral. Thus, it's moral foundation requires the abolition of the supremacy of the rights and freedoms of the individual.
No it isn't. You are confusing the things some who consider themselves liberal have taken up as opposed to sticking up to their principles. The classic liberal is for freedoms. Does this describe many who would call themselves liberals today? No.
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They're in control. It's not about having kept silent. It's just who the D party has become and they now believe they can say (more or less) what they really want. It hasn't changed in 30 years, it's just the arrogance of power, to believe they have won, and they can now just impose whatever they want.
They did hold different positions under Bush. That is indeed a big problem with our country.
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Of course it's true. The ACLU is big business.
I said nothing about them needing to keep the funders happy being bad. I'm just pointing out they pander, rather than stand on any discernible principle.
But yet you outright refuse to back this up.
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