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And doesn't the right attempt to impose how people live their lives socially? If not, why the concern over abortion, marriage, etc.
Do you really have to try this?
opposition to abortion - trying to prevent the death of a human life. We have a RIGHT TO LIFE.
Marriage - the left is proactive using government to totally redefine a cultural institution of marriage - using courts and dogma to forcefully change definitions.
They make a claim they DO NOT BELIEVE - the left does not believe that marriage is a right. It's just the expedient argument du jour. They don't even believe in rights - only privileges granted by government.
Is it socialism or bad practices in the name of socialism. You could have a lot of stupid legislation in the name of capitalism too.
That's a rather difficult statement to comprehend.
Capitalism is ownership rights - that you're free to do what you want with what you own and that what you own can't be taken from you. It's hard to comprehend how you get "stupid legislation" in pursuit of that. For the most part, legislation that controls or regulates what you own is NOT in pursuit of capitalism, but in pursuit of state economic control.
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Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,550 posts, read 16,539,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68
I agree with your first point, but not the second. The left does believe that big government is good for society, and big government is all powerful government. Unfortunately, government isn't very good at running anything well. Look at the botched roll-out of Obamacare, from lying to get the law passed in the first place to cronies getting the contract to create the website that didn't work, and then getting additional money to "fix" the problems (seems almost deliberately done so they could get that extra money).
And what could be more of a symbol of big government becoming too powerful than Catherine Engelbrecht, who after filing for 501(c)3 and 503(c)4 statuses for organizations she founded, was audited by the IRS for personal and business taxes for the first time, and every year since applying for tax-exemption, the FBI came out six different times, had two OSHA inspections at her small fabrication manufacturing shop that even the OSHA inspector said wasn't necessary, and also had visits from the ATF. If that's not political intimidation, I don't know what is.
The left believes that a government that can function is good for society, " big " or "small" is relative to the belief of the individual speaking.
What I see as big or small government may not be the same as what you see it as, so talking in those terms makes no sense because we could(and most likely are) talking about 2 different things when we say the same word.
As for the bold in the first paragraph, you pretty much made my point. You dislike the way the legislation was passed which is laid down in our Constitution and have nothing to do with the size of hour government.
the roll out was bad because the people who created the website didnt do their job right. That has nothing to do with the size of government, your argument could be completely negated if the government had simply chosen someone else to build the site.
Further more, as already stated, government didnt create the site, they paid a private entity to do it and that private entity failed. You are using the word "government" as if it is a sentient being with the ability to do or not do, when in reality it is made of hundreds of thousands of individuals.
As for the second bold, you are arguing that it is intimidation simply because the person you are talking about is conservative and the current administration is Democratic, by that simplistic logic, no Democratic Administration can ever audit a business or income of an individual who claims to be right of center. Now im guessing you realize that makes no sense, but you still believe it is political intimidation. I do not understand this argument, to me it is as if you have forgotten that the IRS does these investigations all the time and it is their job to do so. 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 both have very vague guide lines and yes, investigations need to happen.
If you have some proof that they are coming after her simply because of her political beliefs, then share it, but if not, then you are both simply speculating.
further more, the tax exemption that she may or not get is the creation of government itself. negating the point you are trying to make in the first place. The point you are making has nothing to do with the size of government, it has to do with its political leanings. Unless of course you are including that in your definition of size.
Capital is fleeing Venezuela, any way it can as fast as it can. Hence, there are import controls and shortages. Importing goods requires exporting money.
The government can’t limit profits and imports, confiscate property, nationalize companies, etc. without the economy eventually seizing up and ceasing to function in any meaningful way.
In a way, we owe a big debt to countries like Venezuela and Greece. They’re living proof of what works and what doesn’t economically. It would be unethical to do something like this as research, but they’ve done it for real for their own misguided reasons.
And, of course the entire communist system demonstrated the same thing, but the liberals refuse to see that: ”We’ll get it right this time!”.
They have no understanding that it’s the economic system in itself that’s fatally flawed.
What’s happening in Venezuela now represents the beginning of the end-game for the Venezuelan progressives. I can’t imagine this is going to end well for the leadership. There’s a lesson in there for American Progs too, but you can take it to the bank that they won’t spot it.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 02-15-2014 at 10:12 AM..
How is it false? Their behavior betrays their guiding principles - they have none.
The ACLU can be counted on to reliably address what Democrats want , but only in rare cases, will they actually stick up for individual liberty. Sorry. That's a matter of their record of NOT supporting many individual liberties.
Once again, a generalization based upon nothing. Make vague accusations without actual examples show nothing.
Sorry, that was LEFT WING. They were the precise model of today's progressives. The difference between then and now was very small... they blamed a race for their failures, today's progressives blame the producers for their failures.
No that was right no matter how much you try to refute it in your sad and rather pathetic way. Simply because you don't agree with what is being said does not make things less so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
Wikipedia is a encyclopedia with footnotes that link to legitimate sources...most of the time. By dismissing the entire post without even attempting to read it is intellectually dishonest. You are basically trying to side step an entire argument by not acknowledging a source that would refute your argument.
The Left also does not believe in an all powerful government, you are again being dishonest just to make your argument.
Not surprising most of the resident rwnj trolls on this site don't seem to care about facts, figures, or really anything truthful that does not fit in line with their preconceived ideas about what is "left"
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk
Do you really have to try this?
opposition to abortion - trying to prevent the death of a human life. We have a RIGHT TO LIFE.
Marriage - the left is proactive using government to totally redefine a cultural institution of marriage - using courts and dogma to forcefully change definitions.
They make a claim they DO NOT BELIEVE - the left does not believe that marriage is a right. It's just the expedient argument du jour. They don't even believe in rights - only privileges granted by government.
A FETUS IS NOT A HUMAN ! A FETUS CANNOT SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE WOMB A FETUS IS MORE COMPATIBALE TO A PARASITE UNTIL THE FETUS IS BROUGHT TO TERM AND COMES OUT OF THE MOTHER THAN THE FETUS IS A BABY ! do you eat eggs ? Because if you do your committing murder and how dare you cook and eat a baby !!
The left believes that a government that can function is good for society, " big " or "small" is relative to the belief of the individual speaking.
What I see as big or small government may not be the same as what you see it as, so talking in those terms makes no sense because we could(and most likely are) talking about 2 different things when we say the same word.
Well, it is you lefties who wanted the language to be meaningless, so when you say "help" it means government makes your decisions for you, and when you say "investment" it means massive wasteful spending on pet ideological projects.
Quote:
As for the bold in the first paragraph, you pretty much made my point. You dislike the way the legislation was passed which is laid down in our Constitution and have nothing to do with the size of hour government.
It is all blatantly unconstitutional.
And "size of government" has to do with the scope of interference in our lives - not the dollar amount of the budget, nor the number of employees.
Quote:
the roll out was bad because the people who created the website didnt do their job right. That has nothing to do with the size of government, your argument could be completely negated if the government had simply chosen someone else to build the site.
The 'roll out' was mostly irrelevant. It's just a visible example of the utter incompetence of government to involve itself in the economy and our lives - which is what our argument is about in the first place.
Quote:
Further more, as already stated, government didnt create the site, they paid a private entity to do it and that private entity failed. You are using the word "government" as if it is a sentient being with the ability to do or not do, when in reality it is made of hundreds of thousands of individuals.
Anyone accusing "government" as being "sentient" isn't wholly self aware. Not only is government not a unitary sentient being, it is simply the single most incompetent form of organization on the planet.
Quote:
As for the second bold, you are arguing that it is intimidation simply because the person you are talking about is conservative and the current administration is Democratic, by that simplistic logic, no Democratic Administration can ever audit a business or income of an individual who claims to be right of center.
I'm sorry, when your desperation reaches the point where you must blatantly mischaracterize an argument, you've lost.
Quote:
Now im guessing you realize that makes no sense, but you still believe it is political intimidation. I do not understand this argument, to me it is as if you have forgotten that the IRS does these investigations all the time and it is their job to do so. 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 both have very vague guide lines and yes, investigations need to happen.
That you would blithely attempt to dismiss blatant abuse of power for partisan purposes does not enhance your credibility. At this point, you have become the modern equivalent of Joseph Goebbels.
Quote:
If you have some proof that they are coming after her simply because of her political beliefs, then share it, but if not, then you are both simply speculating.
It has been proved AND admitted by those who did it. yet, here you are denying it. Reference my last comment above.
Quote:
further more, the tax exemption that she may or not get is the creation of government itself. negating the point you are trying to make in the first place.
How? The fact that the government has empowered itself to regulate one's political and financial activity only proves that government is over-reaching and tyrannical. The very essence of our complaint.
Quote:
The point you are making has nothing to do with the size of government, it has to do with its political leanings. Unless of course you are including that in your definition of size.
Not at all.
It has become a PARTISAN WEAPON OF CHOICE to affect future political outcomes. And you're desperately defending that as both natural and wanted.
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