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View Poll Results: Would raising the minimum wage to $15/hr create jobs and revive the economy?
YES. I am all for it seeing how it would benefit everybody 24 20.69%
NO. I am against it because (please elaborate) 83 71.55%
I don't know / don't care 9 7.76%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-17-2014, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,193,867 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu View Post
People will cut their own lawns (or hire a neighborhood kid to do it) if hiring a professional is too expensive. Raising the expense of employing a cashier would encourage stores to put in more self-checkout kiosks in stores and result in fewer jobs.

Businesses will find ways to get through their day-to-day activities with fewer employees if their labor costs suddenly increased by 50%-100%.
Professional lawn care people rarely charge minimum wage to cut lawns.

 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:20 PM
 
15,857 posts, read 14,487,406 times
Reputation: 11959
Currently that's one employee for 4-6 registers (combined with automatic/electronic methods.) So now there's 1 job where they're use to be 4-6 jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risotto11 View Post
Yes but people steal and someone has to watch and make sure nobody cheats an automated cash register. There is still plenty of manual minimum wage jobs out there.
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:20 PM
 
804 posts, read 619,015 times
Reputation: 156
I don't think so. I think the level of employment in 2014 is 'lean and mean' and there is no 'fat' to cut out, no unnecessary payroll.
The employees have to stay no matter what.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu View Post
People will cut their own lawns (or hire a neighborhood kid to do it) if hiring a professional is too expensive. Raising the expense of employing a cashier would encourage stores to put in more self-checkout kiosks in stores and result in fewer jobs.

Businesses will find ways to get through their day-to-day activities with fewer employees if their labor costs suddenly increased by 50%-100%.
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:22 PM
 
804 posts, read 619,015 times
Reputation: 156
So this is happening at $7.25 so raising the minimum wage wouldn't change much. Also, I haven't seen a store with all automated registers and cashiers are only one of many minimum wage jobs. How is that relevant?



Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
Currently that's one employee for 4-6 registers (combined with automatic/electronic methods.) So now there's 1 job where they're use to be 4-6 jobs.
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:23 PM
 
15,857 posts, read 14,487,406 times
Reputation: 11959
Automation has a cost. There are jobs that are not worth automating at 7.25, that are worth automating at $15.00. This is especially true if you add in other costs like those mandated under Obamacare.

The more expensive labor becomes, the more viable automation is. The big question is where's the line where automation comes financially viable. Given that $15.00/hour would be an over 100% increase, I have to think it would be over the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risotto11 View Post
How is that relevant ? Automation happens even now at $7.25/hr?

Some simple jobs simply can't be automated.
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:28 PM
 
804 posts, read 619,015 times
Reputation: 156
It's a straw man argument. Automation will always be cheaper than labor when you consider unemployment insurance, liability, dependability, sick days etc. Automation is happening regardless of minimum wage but some jobs like stock rooms, stuffing store shelves can't easily be automated. The banks had automated everything, from on line access to deposits and withdrawals in ATMs yet the bank branches are still there. Automation is not an answer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
Automation has a cost. There are jobs that are not worth automating at 7.25, that are worth automating at $15.00. This is especially true if you add in other costs like those mandated under Obamacare.

The more expensive labor becomes, the more viable automation is.
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:43 PM
 
15,857 posts, read 14,487,406 times
Reputation: 11959
Just because you say that, doesn't mean it's true.

First, there is an upfront cost to automation. Assuming that a company currently has humans doing a job means that the return on investment for automation doesn't warrant investing in the automation, vastly increasing labor costs will change that calculation radically.

Second, you can apply that principle to the development of the automation technology itself. Higher wages will generate more demand to automate currently manual jobs, which makes it worthwhile for companies to invest in developing more automation technology.

Even if every low wage job doesn't get automated out of existence, a substantial percentage could be.

It's attitudes like your that will inadvertently cost a lot of people their jobs. Even if those jobs don't pay much, they're better than nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risotto11 View Post
It's a straw man argument. Automation will always be cheaper than labor when you consider unemployment insurance, liability, dependability, sick days etc. Automation is happening regardless of minimum wage but some jobs like stock rooms, stuffing store shelves can't easily be automated. The banks had automated everything, from on line access to deposits and withdrawals in ATMs yet the bank branches are still there. Automation is not an answer.
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,171 posts, read 1,460,342 times
Reputation: 1323
:
 
Old 02-17-2014, 12:55 PM
 
59,112 posts, read 27,330,758 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by risotto11 View Post
What data? What evidence?
I ask you the SAME question.

You made a LOT of assumptions and claims in your opening post.

Are you aware that MOST staes ALSO have a minimum wage and that is is usually HIGHER then the fed rate.

What is the rate in YOUR state?

How many people are paid the fed rate?
 
Old 02-17-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,119,613 times
Reputation: 15135
Quote:
Originally Posted by risotto11 View Post
How is that relevant ? Automation happens even now at $7.25/hr?

Some simple jobs simply can't be automated.
Many of the jobs you think "can't be automated" actually can, it's just not worth the cost - it's cheaper to pay people than to bring in the machines. But if you double+ the cost of the labor performing those tasks, guess what happens? Relatively speaking, the cost of those machines comes way down.

Let's say you run a burger joint, and you're employing 10 people at $8/hr, for 30 hours per week. That's a RAW (doesn't include UI, taxes, workers' comp, etc) labor cost of about $125k/year. Tomorrow, the minimum wage becomes $15/hr. So your $125k labor cost becomes $234k overnight, and that still doesn't include the additional cost of UI, taxes, workers' comp, etc. That's a $109k/yr difference, plus those additional costs, which generally add around 30% to the cost of labor.

Now let's assume that a burger-making machine can be leased for $100k/yr, maintenance included, and having that machine can allow you to reduce your staff by 50%.

Paying your employees $8/hr, you'd save $62k/yr on your raw labor cost by bringing in that machine, which costs you $100k/yr. You'd be losing $38k by automating.

Paying your employees $15/hr, you'd save $117k on your raw labor cost by bringing in that machine, which costs you $100k/yr. You'd be saving $17k by automating.
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