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Old 02-19-2014, 01:04 PM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,740,042 times
Reputation: 1034

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
Humans fighting for more liberty should be everyone's concern.
Like I said I hope the people win but it is not our fight. We cannot put more people in harms way.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,239,557 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Yep- looks like it. The only thing we are missing is a televised speech which outlines these plans.
Televised plans are overrated. Good to see you finally approve of Obama on something.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,955,392 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
What liberty is at risk for these "humans?"
It was a simple general statement. I dont know who "these" you reference are. Humans means all humans.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:07 PM
 
15,355 posts, read 12,670,746 times
Reputation: 7571
not our business...
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,780,801 times
Reputation: 9728
This might seem odd coming from a pacifist, but why do we in the West so often always tell people in dictatorships and other horrible places to be peaceful and refrain from violence? Many countries like the US, China, Russia, etc. spend trillions on arms and export arms worth billions, so what kind of example is that? And why would people elsewhere not follow the violent way?
And let's face it, without violence dictators usually don't leave office just like that. Without past violence many places would still be dictatorships today. Often it took a civil war to get rid of them.
In short, I think those naive people like the pope and Western presidents and prime ministers should just shut up and stop preaching their hippie wisdom from their comfortable places like the Vatican.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:22 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,959,274 times
Reputation: 18305
Because we see the outcome which is most those who are not fighting suffering like old people and children.Look at Sudan for instances.Most casualties are not fighters.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,108 posts, read 51,321,770 times
Reputation: 28356
stay out of it...
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:29 PM
 
5,391 posts, read 7,239,225 times
Reputation: 2857
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
You keep telling yourself that. Oh yeah, there was no "Wall" speech by Reagan, and no statue of him in downtown Warsaw either.
Why do you show a picture of Reagan and Pope statues in Gdansk that were installed in 2012?

And the other Reagan statue, the one in Warsaw, was installed in 2011.

Like that really ended the Soviet Union.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:32 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,780,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Because we see the outcome which is most those who are not fighting suffering like old people and children.Look at Sudan for instances.Most casualties are not fighters.
Well, they did have a civil war in Sudan, and now at least the south is rid of the Islamic north.

Of course war is ugly and stupid, but that's human, I'm afraid. Yes, there are innocent victims, but can one accept a dictator just to avoid that? Basically appeasement? Didn't work with Hitler, either. Sanctions only hit the innocent as well.

Governments only fear violence, pacific ways of protests have been turned into toothless tigers for quite some time in order to prevent change. It is the same in the West if we are honest. We are only allowed to take action that doesn't challenge the status quo. Mere symbolism.

Maybe if we had a real UNO that can't be vetoed and manipulated, a UNO force could simply take out dictators in the name of all of humanity. That guy in the Ukraine for instance is quite a nasty guy, there was a report on how he got to and stays in power.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,498,212 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vergofa View Post
Police launch new attack on anti-govt protesters in Kiev, as death tolls rises to 25

...
It's an internal matter of another country. It's not our business even if Ukraine is a potential ally.

[we should stay neutral]
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