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Old 02-20-2014, 10:22 AM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,677,147 times
Reputation: 4254

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
You don't prevent discrimination by writing laws to specifically allow discrimination.

If you can't operate a business because of your religious beliefs, DON'T OPEN A BUSINESS.
I know what you are getting at, but people do open businesses to provide a service or product, and even though it might not be evident, many of then do tend to specialize in a niche market.

Someone may own a record label that caters only to Christian music, or a daycare center that only caters to Lutherans, but to most people these businesses make it pretty evident who they cater to, other businesses are more vague.

For example, a person may teach ballet, waltz, ballroom and other forms of dancing. When a person comes wanting to be an instructor or take clogging lessons or break dancing and the owner turns them away. The owner may refuse to have anything to do with these forms of dance because she views clogging or break dancing as offensive and not true forms of dance.

If you know car nuts, some of them are so loyal to a brand of car they flat out refuse to work on some makes or models of car. You may have an auto mechanic who looks at your Toyota and says, "we don't service those," even though what you need done is generic to all cars.

And these examples would not be protected under something akin to the freedom of religion, and yet these types of businesses exist.

 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,205,611 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
I know what you are getting at, but people do open businesses to provide a service or product, and even though it might not be evident, many of then do tend to specialize in a niche market.

Someone may own a record label that caters only to Christian music, or a daycare center that only caters to Lutherans, but to most people these businesses make it pretty evident who they cater to, other businesses are more vague.

For example, a person may teach ballet, waltz, ballroom and other forms of dancing. When a person comes wanting to be an instructor or take clogging lessons or break dancing and the owner turns them away. The owner may refuse to have anything to do with these forms of dance because she views clogging or break dancing as offensive and not true forms of dance.

If you know car nuts, some of them are so loyal to a brand of car they flat out refuse to work on some makes or models of car. You may have an auto mechanic who looks at your Toyota and says, "we don't service those," even though what you need done is generic to all cars.

And these examples would not be protected under something akin to the freedom of religion, and yet these types of businesses exist.
If a dance studio doesn't offer clogging, it doesn't have to offer clogging to anyone. If it does offer clogging then refusing people who want to learn how to clog is discrimination. No one is forcing a business to offer a service they don't already offer. A bakery makes cakes. No one is trying to force them to sell ribs, just sell the cakes that they decided they were in business to sell to the general public.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:30 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,238,044 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
I know what you are getting at, but people do open businesses to provide a service or product, and even though it might not be evident, many of then do tend to specialize in a niche market.

Someone may own a record label that caters only to Christian music, or a daycare center that only caters to Lutherans, but to most people these businesses make it pretty evident who they cater to, other businesses are more vague.

For example, a person may teach ballet, waltz, ballroom and other forms of dancing. When a person comes wanting to be an instructor or take clogging lessons or break dancing and the owner turns them away. The owner may refuse to have anything to do with these forms of dance because she views clogging or break dancing as offensive and not true forms of dance.

If you know car nuts, some of them are so loyal to a brand of car they flat out refuse to work on some makes or models of car. You may have an auto mechanic who looks at your Toyota and says, "we don't service those," even though what you need done is generic to all cars.

And these examples would not be protected under something akin to the freedom of religion, and yet these types of businesses exist.
Your examples don't have a law to back them up.Not state sanctioned.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,503,175 times
Reputation: 25770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britt Reid View Post
I think another state passed something similar to this last week so this must be a trend that is catching on. I agree with this bill that if you are a business owner and believe in and live by your faith that you should be able to refuse service to whoever you want.


Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays

Anyone should be able to choose who they associate with. This is as true for business owners as anyone else. Sould a black-owned "soul food" (if the term is still used) resturant be forced to serve a bunch of white patrons that come in wearing white sheets and pointy hats? For a small business where the owner is an intimate part of the company, it's a no brainer.

In a bigger company...it's more complicated. One corporation may be the major employer or have a monopoly of a particular business type in a smaller community.

For the most part...how is a business going to know if the customer is homo? If you go into a resturant and order, how do they know you are just same-sex friends vs lovers? Now, some businesses, by their nature, are part of an "event" that is...focused on the gender of those involved. Example...a straight girls having a bachlorette party hires a male stripper. Fine. Should that male stripper then be forced to perform for male homosexuals? Of course not. Should a caterer that is straight be forced to cater to a homo wedding? Of course not, they should have the right to pick who they associate with.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,323,230 times
Reputation: 9789
I just hope these businesses display a sticker in the window to that effect.
"I'm allowed to be a dick and discriminate".
That way, I'd know which businesses to avoid and I'm not even gay. Most people I know wouldn't shop there, either.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,205,611 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
I just hope these businesses display a sticker in the window to that effect.
"I'm allowed to be a dick and discriminate".
That way, I'd know which businesses to avoid and I'm not even gay. Most people I know wouldn't shop there, either.
One of the democrats tried to get a notification amendment put in, but the republicans refused to allow it.
If you are going to discriminate based on your religious beliefs, you should be proud to display those religious beliefs to the world.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,323,230 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
One of the democrats tried to get a notification amendment put in, but the republicans refused to allow it.
If you are going to discriminate based on your religious beliefs, you should be proud to display those religious beliefs to the world.
Seriously? So you're allowed to discriminate, but I'm not allowed to know you do so?
That's messed up.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:48 AM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,677,147 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
If a dance studio doesn't offer clogging, it doesn't have to offer clogging to anyone. If it does offer clogging then refusing people who want to learn how to clog is discrimination. No one is forcing a business to offer a service they don't already offer. A bakery makes cakes. No one is trying to force them to sell ribs, just sell the cakes that they decided they were in business to sell to the general public.
Agreed, selling a product like food, it should not be used to impose discrimination on who eats it. But if I don't like Fords, or foreign made cars, I can refuse to work on your car even though I run an auto repair shop.

If I'm a fanatic member of PETA and own a photography studio, or a web design company, I can refuse to photograph or promote your hunting, killing or butchering of deer or bear. People can have a business opened to the public and still control the details and specifics of what those services entail.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:49 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,099,924 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
No ACLU law suit?
On what grounds would the ACLU sue?
 
Old 02-20-2014, 10:53 AM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,677,147 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Your examples don't have a law to back them up.Not state sanctioned.
What are you talking about? You could not have been any more vague then that.
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