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The black civil rights movement is the exact opposite of these segregationist goals of the NOI.
You must not know much about the black civil rights movement. The civil rights era was in the media as a southern phenomenon but in the Midwest, North East, and out West, civil rights was a different sort of struggle, one characterized by the activism of the NOI and the original Black Panther Party. The powers that be could take Dr. King with his non-violence, but the movement did not start with him and all of it was not inclusive of him and many black people did not agree with his ideology or that of the SCLC and other similar southern civil rights organizations. You should do more study on the civil rights movement and the Black Power struggle. Malcolm X - a member of the NOI primarily recruited in the Midwest and North EAst. In those areas blacks faced a different kind of discrimination and were not gung ho about non-violence demonstration due to the differences in northern versus southern attitudes and racism. Dr. King even said himself that he was more afraid of a horrible outcome in regards to a demonstration in Chicago than in Mississippi. So the mindset of the NOI and people in those areas was much different that what you think the civil rights demonstrations consisted of. You need to do more study on civil rights in other areas outside of the south.
If you believe things would have been better under the status quo of segregation and exclusion in the South, then blacks should have left all that alone, don't you think? Self-determination was already happening in the segregated neighborhoods of the black south.
Self determination was not happening in either the south or north in large numbers and when it did, it was met with white violence in order to put black people back in their place - which was at the bottom of society. And I do feel that integration in schools in particular was damaging to black youth as they were put into classrooms with hostile white people and in dangerous situations. I also think that integration of businesses killed many black businesses as more black people shopped and ate at white establishments because they could instead of continuing to patronize black locations. Contrary to what you may believe, many black people have an inferiority complex about race, especially older ones IMO in that they think that anything run by white people is better than a similar black business. I do feel the riding on buses things was important and the water fountains/bathroom segregation was silly and unnecessary, but I do feel that if the strict districts for schooling had been relaxed and that kids would have gone to school based on their neighborhood and no bussing had taken place that black children would have made much more gains in education right now and black parents wouldn't have such a negative view of their schools today. Please read a book called "Acting White" it speaks to this phenomenon and how educational excellence was normal and valued in black communities until integration and especially forced integration and bussing occurred.
After all, it wasn't white people who initiated it. And now you want to go BACK to it? The most ardent symbols of white racism in the past were white folks fighting against desegregation. And yet today you have a soft spot for those in black ranks who would seek to go back to that time.
It was not a majority of black people either. I didn't say I wanted to go back to it. Only in hindsight I don't think it caused the prosperity and achievement that the original demonstrators were looking for. I also don't have a soft spot for the NOI if that is who you were speaking of in regards to "black ranks." I don't like them, but you are the one who is unknowledgeable about their activities. I only sought to provide you with more information. I like these forums because I get a lot of good information about topics I might now have researched thoroughly before. I am not trying to glorify them or have some sort of alliance with them. I am giving an objective view point based on my knowledge of them that you may not have.
Responses in blue.
And as stated, I harbor no affinity for the NOI. But as Indentured Servant stated, the topics of which you said they should focus IS actually their primary focus and they do have success especially with black males who are former inmates. There are many reasons to dislike them but to say they don't focus on economics, education, and uplifting the black community is false as those are their primary focuses as an organization.
And as stated, I harbor no affinity for the NOI. But as Indentured Servant stated, the topics of which you said they should focus IS actually their primary focus and they do have success especially with black males who are former inmates. There are many reasons to dislike them but to say they don't focus on economics, education, and uplifting the black community is false as those are their primary focuses as an organization.
Well said. Again, the bottom line is that any entity, whether it be an individual or organization, that links past racial behaviors to current racial realities will be condemned. One cannot really feel that they are "Supreme" if its revealed that they cheated or that it was not a fair competition. People want to feel that there status over others is the results of being "Better" than others in a fair competition of life. Thus, any entity that says...."Hey....you cheated...or no fair"....will be condemned as EXCUSE MAKERS in order that the victors can preserve the feeling of being on top as a result of being "BETTER". In other words, natural selection of the best rising to the top ranks and the lesser assuming their position behind them.
Hence, what he means by wanting them to "FOCUS" on education, parenting, crime and the like is "Stop telling about how we cheated or how it was unfair for your people because of white folks".
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 02-26-2014 at 12:09 PM..
Take away the racist murders of the Nazis along with Hitler's stupid need to grab more and more land during WW 2; Hitler would've been counted as a great man since he did build up Germany. Again: what screwed it for him was killing the Jews, starting a big war over greed and so on.
This is my problem with Holders Letter.... They will take advantage of their new found freedom, knowing they will not be held accountable!
Quote:
“Kids of the favored race know they can get away with more, so they misbehave
more, and the well-behaved kids lose out on instruction because the teacher is
busy trying to manage unruly students she can’t send to the principal’s office,”
said Pullmann.
It’s more than theory and opinion that every action creates a reaction. People like you are discredited when you try to argue that such is not true when it comes to the racist actions of whites for centuries. All those actions, to the ignorant mind, are not the catalyst or cause of any reactions…..unless the reaction is positive, in which they want to take credit for it.
For the record, I never try to change anyone’s opinions. That is never my goal. My goal is simply to present a cause and affect argument, predicated on the reasoning that every action creates a reaction and hence every condition is evolved from a temporal continuum of actions begetting reactions. My mind is never CLOSED or HARDENED like you profess yours to be. I always want to be open to change and have an opinion that is pliable to a good argument.
That said, regardless of how much you and other denigrate the NOI, they remain in high esteem with me. That does not mean that I am a follower or adherer of their “Package deal”. Hey…it’s kind of like cable though. You cannot itemize the channel you want in a basic subscription. You might just want ESPN……but you have to take the whole basic package to get it. NOI does some really positive stuff...then they have other stuff that they do that I am not a fan of......but you cannot find an organization that does the positives like they do, in my opinion. There is no one that can touch Farrakhan as a motivation speaker for black men.....PERIOD!! There is no organization that turns the lives around of ex cons like NOI. They reach into places and populations that are the HARDEST....and make a difference.
Quote:
The million man march would have been the 1000 man march without
Farrakhan.
PS
None of these things are negated by the existence of whites, many of whom are not racist and good peoples. People seem to think that simply demonstrating that ALL whites are not racist someone makes the other stuff not true or discredited. Hell....slavery existed for centuries, notwithstanding "good white people" back then too.
From Wiki......"Another memorable incident occurred when Louis Farrakhan threatened to sue the Washington, D.C. Park Police for announcing that only 400,000 people attended the 1995 Million Man March he organized".
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