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View Poll Results: After-birth abortion: should it be allowed?
yes 4 8.89%
No 41 91.11%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Yet. Remember, we're progressing and science changes.

Once upon a time life actually began at conception.
Actually... life has never begun at conception.

Ever.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
"Marriage" had the status ever since it was created, of being a union of man and woman only.
Not really. But you keep thinking that of it makes you feel better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
But the leftist fanatics didn't have any trouble "establishing a new premise" for that long-established situation.
Hard to justify calling a several thousand year old practice "new."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
SHOULD newborns have a different status from, say, a five-year-old?
No.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Scientists who take a genetic view of when life begins..fertilization of egg and sperm as well as people who still maintain religious faith.
I know of no "scientists" who take that view. Wanna point out a few of them to us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
The Supreme Court ruled on fetal viability outside the womb as to when "life begins" which is further along in pregnancy. And for you that's all that matters.
And for most of history it was when the fetus "quickened in the womb." This was also the church position for centuries.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
No one is asking you or forcing on you. The Supreme Court ruled and told when legally when life begins.
It begins at "x" for abortion but at "y" for homicide.

Why is that fetus treated differently ?
It's entirely arbitrary.

At some points along the 9 months of pregnancy, something that is obviously not a human being (i.e. a fertilized ovum) becomes something that obviously is a human being (i.e. a full term fetus). During much of that time it is not obviously either.

Any attempt to draw a bright line when one becomes the other is entirely arbitrary.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,798,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The premise that newborns do not have the same status as other living humans is a difficult premise to establish, since, actually, they do enjoy that same status. Legally and ethically, they are entitled the same consideration as a five-year-old or a fifty-year-old. While the authors can try to make the argument that newborns and fetuses are appreciably the same, science and the law do not agree with that argument.
What exactly do you mean by "ethnically" here?
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,085,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
What exactly do you mean by "ethnically" here?
The word was "ethically." Not "ethnically."
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,798,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
1. I know of no "scientists" who take that view. Wanna point out a few of them to us?

2 And for most of history it was when the fetus "quickened in the womb." This was also the church position for centuries.
1. Here you go:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRuJ7BupDxk

2. Well, thoughout most of history we didn't have the knowledge and technology which we have today.

As for the Church, it historically wasn't that big of a supporter of science. After all, you know the story of what happened to Galileo, correct?
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:23 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,798,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
You evidently are asking me.

The Supreme Court didn't rule that life begins at different times for different fetuses. The Supreme Court ruled on the state's interests in unborn fetuses. In the case of a mother seeking abortion, the state's interest in the fetus outweighs the mother's rights at the point when the fetus becomes viable, able to live outside the womb. In the case of a pregnant woman being murdered, the state presumes that, without the intervention of the murderer, the fetus would have reached that point of viability, and therefore the state has an interest in that fetus.
The problem with such an argument is that the state is confusing future potential with reality.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:26 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,798,952 times
Reputation: 1930
@The OP: In regards to your question, No, infanticide should not be legalized.

That said, this is why I support personhood for prenatal human beings as well--some of the arguments which are used to deny prenatal human beings personhood can also be used to deny human infants personhood.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:27 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,798,952 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Why should newborns have a different status from, say, a five-year-old? You're the one using SHOULD by the way, so don't chicken out now. Offer up an argument.
I don't support infanticide, but someone who does might respond to your question like this:

Because human infants are incapable of self-awareness and/or rational thought.
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