Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-27-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,763,649 times
Reputation: 1930

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
The best thing for Israel to do is finish their wall around the West Bank, close the crossings from Israel into Gaza and the West Bank and give them to the UN to deal with (Neither Egypt or Jordan wants them). They complain so much about Israel holding them back in commerce, then fine once they are under the UN they can do as much commerce as they want with Arab countries. Enough with these games already.
Yes, I agree that if the creation of a final peace treaty fails to be achieved in the next ten years or so, then your proposal here is probably a very good idea.

 
Old 02-27-2014, 10:05 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,763,649 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
1. Israel pulled out of Gaza for good reason, namely there were a few thousand Jews there and 1.5 million Arabs. It was a pretty obvious decision for the survival of a Jewish state.

2. The issue with the West Bank is that it is much much more complicated. One there are 2.5 million Arabs there, but there are also 350,000 Jews there and that number is growing rapidly. Once more the demographic map of the West Bank or Judea and Samaria as its Israeli residents call it looks like a Jackson Pollock painting.
3. Then there is the historical issue, as in historically the ancient civilization of the Jews wasn't in Gaza, nor was it all that much up in Haifa or Tel-Aviv, it was in and around the West Bank in particular East Jerusalem. Meaning that the cultural importance to Jews is highly significant. As such dealing with the demographic issues won't be easy.
1. Yes, this appears to be correct.

2. Actually, Israel can annex only 3% or so of the West Bank and still have 70+% of the total Jews in the West Bank become under Israeli rule.

You can trying calculating and doing this yourself here:

Is Peace Possible? Interactive Map

3. In regards to East Jerusalem, a good compromise in regards to this might be to hold referendums in all of the neighborhoods (or at least, in all of the Arab neighborhoods, since it is pretty clear that all of the Jewish neighborhoods will want to remain a part of Israel) outside of the Old City so that the residents of each of these neighborhoods will be able to clearly and anonymously state which country they want to be a part of. As for the Old City itself, a good idea might be to either internationalize all of it, internationalize some of it and partition the rest of it, or partition all of it (between Israel and Palestine, obviously).
 
Old 02-27-2014, 10:26 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,638 times
Reputation: 12
No, not like that at all. A minority of Christians engage in violent political behavior, and a minority of Jews as well. A majority of Muslims, I didn't say all, believe that it is acceptable to engage in violence for political ends. You're confusing unfair stereotypes with well-researched generalizations.
 
Old 02-27-2014, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Perpetuality On Wheels
447 posts, read 493,522 times
Reputation: 143
My God, finally the world will see the light at the end of tunnel!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Jews to become a minority in Israel?

Some predict that in the next decade there will be more Arabs than Jews, interesting. Maybe then we will have peace, or not.


Read more: Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories

Last edited by seagull84; 02-27-2014 at 11:29 PM..
 
Old 02-28-2014, 12:04 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,763,649 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull84 View Post
My God, finally the world will see the light at the end of tunnel!
Do you see an Arab majority within the 1947 Mandate of Palestine borders as "light at the end of [the] tunnel"? If so, why?
 
Old 02-28-2014, 12:08 AM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,413,047 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
2. Actually, Israel can annex only 3% or so of the West Bank and still have 70+% of the total Jews in the West Bank become under Israeli rule.

You can trying calculating and doing this yourself here:

Is Peace Possible? Interactive Map

3. In regards to East Jerusalem, a good compromise in regards to this might be to hold referendums in all of the neighborhoods (or at least, in all of the Arab neighborhoods, since it is pretty clear that all of the Jewish neighborhoods will want to remain a part of Israel) outside of the Old City so that the residents of each of these neighborhoods will be able to clearly and anonymously state which country they want to be a part of. As for the Old City itself, a good idea might be to either internationalize all of it, internationalize some of it and partition the rest of it, or partition all of it (between Israel and Palestine, obviously).
Except as I said the west bank's demographics looks like a Jackson Pollock painting. That 3% is spread all thoughout the west bank, so issues like contiguous become a problem. Basically a two state solution that leaves most of the settlers in place will look like some congressional districts I have seen.

I seriously doubt Israel will ever willingly give up East Jerusalem.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 01:33 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,763,649 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
1. Except as I said the west bank's demographics looks like a Jackson Pollock painting. That 3% is spread all thoughout the west bank, so issues like contiguous become a problem. Basically a two state solution that leaves most of the settlers in place will look like some congressional districts I have seen.

2. I seriously doubt Israel will ever willingly give up East Jerusalem.
1. What I mentioned, though, looks pretty similar to the Geneva Initiative map-wise (but with a little bit more land swaps). Does the proposed Palestinian state in this map (of the Geneva Initiative) genuinely look not very contiguous to you?



Source: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VL4xJ4vk2-...ummary+map.bmp

2. Two previous Israeli Prime Ministers (Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert) both already offered to give up parts of East Jerusalem to the Palestinians. Besides, if a majority of the population in some/all of the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem doesn't want to live under Israeli rule, then I don't see what reasonable (no, Biblical claims do not count as reasonable) argument Israel can make in regards to keeping these neighborhoods.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,563 posts, read 10,282,398 times
Reputation: 8247
Looking back at fertility rates - isn't there a segment of the Israeli population that has high fertility rates - the ultra Orthodox, or Haredim, that is growing very rapidly?
 
Old 02-28-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,600,516 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post

3. In regards to East Jerusalem, a good compromise in regards to this might be to hold referendums in all of the neighborhoods (or at least, in all of the Arab neighborhoods, since it is pretty clear that all of the Jewish neighborhoods will want to remain a part of Israel) outside of the Old City so that the residents of each of these neighborhoods will be able to clearly and anonymously state which country they want to be a part of. As for the Old City itself, a good idea might be to either internationalize all of it, internationalize some of it and partition the rest of it, or partition all of it (between Israel and Palestine, obviously).
In a manner it's already been done. The Christian Arabs want to be on the Israeli side. Just bring up google maps, most of the maps show the land East of Jerusalem to be lacking of any people. I don't know if you can read Arabic or not, but the Palestinians consider the lands North & South of Jerusalem to be East Jerusalem. Also if the Peace Treaty with Jordan stays in place, Then the Jordanians will retain control of the Temple Mount. As to the city itself, under Israeli control its been open to all since 1967. It was closed to all under Jordanian rule and it was open to all under British and Ottoman control. As to partitioning the Old City we've already seen how that worked in 1949. In the Israel side, Arabs stayed in their homes. In the Jordanian side, all Jews were evicted from their homes.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,600,516 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Looking back at fertility rates - isn't there a segment of the Israeli population that has high fertility rates - the ultra Orthodox, or Haredim, that is growing very rapidly?
They are the "settlers". No room left inside the walls so now they are building outside the walls.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top