Being that Nigerians are model minorities, is it fair to say that racism is not the cause of racial disparities? (lawyers, Obama)
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Nope wrong. Nigeria is not eligible for lottery. Too many Nigerians entered in previous years. African immigrants from Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya and Ethiopia have been coming for years. My folks came in the 70s a lot of the migration is from family reunification, H1B, visa overstays and the diversity lottery.
Nice try. It is only now that they are no longer eligible. That lottery was around for a long time now.
Aren't you ashamed that you are compared to illiterate ghetto dwellers, when your family didn't come from the urban ghettoes of West Africa? Why do you think that is a valid comparison? Why would you not do better? Indeed isn't it silly that such a comparison is even made?
Do you not think that West Africans, who are MORE educated than Indians, ought to be compared to them to determine how well they do? So why do West Africans have LOWER incomes, and higher poverty rates and unemployment than do Indians, when they are more educated?
I amazed that you don't think that this is a more worthy question than limiting the discussion to the fact that people who arrived with college degrees, or who arrived to attend US colleges, have higher levels of education than a random group of people.
If people from the ghettoes of Nigeria arrived, illiterate as ever, how well will they do? We do know from Europe that the answer will be not very well, lacking the tools to enter into the US labor force, and probably forced into the same marginal occupations that many are involved in continental Europe. If they didn't even complete primary school in Nigeria do you really think that they will graduate college in the USA?
If it turns out that racism plays a role in the under performance of Nigerians and other black Africans, when we look at their earnings, then why focus on how they out perform black Americans? Inst it more useful to determine why they under perform groups with comparable levels of education? What are Indians doing that Nigerians aren't doing? Is the USA more accepting of Indians than it is of Nigerians.
These are the questions that you ought to be asking, instead of basking in the "glory" that a highly educated group outperforms one which has been broken down by Jim Crow, and is now struggling to crawl out of that legacy.
Does that help them deal with the barriers which apparently hold them back? You know it will not shock me if, an adjustment for levels of education will reveal black Americans out performing Nigerians. And such an adjustment will need to be made to allow a proper comparison to be made, because you know full well that Nigerian migration to the USA isn't of random groups of people representing the full spectrum of that nation's population.
I hate this arguement but let me give you the short version. The Nigerians coming to the US are from well to do middle class families. The hit the glass ceiling at home, so they came here. These are also the extra motivated people. The group of African immigrants here is pretty self selecting. So they've already got a head start when they get here. They likely went to private school, lived in a gated community at home and had all the trappings of middle to upper middle class life.
And just like here, if you start off with middle class or higher upbringing, your chance for success is really high.
Yes, some immigrants weren't able to transfer there professional licenses over right away, so they do "basic jobs" in the US. Or they are among the few not so educated people who come over. What that person lacks in education, they make up for it in drive. You have to be extra motivated to travel, halfway across the world to make a fresh start abroad. You aren't a "regular person" in terms of motivation, so you will try everything you can to succeed.
But most are coming over with a privileged background. Next time you meet a Nigerian cab driver, ask him what he studied in school. He'll likely tell you about his BS. Or ask if he had a car and driver at home. Odds are, he probably did. 75% of the Nigerians I know surely did. Their parents have masters degrees.
So these Nigerians are succeeded because they are starting off with privilege. Just like their middle class black peers.
Some groups just have greater numbers of people that are less able to achieve success in an advanced economy. It's insane to believe that all groups are exactly equal in ability. There is no evidence to support that position.
African immigrants ON ARRIVAL are more likely to have college degrees than any other immigrant.
If you can show data which indicates that Africans who migrate to France are also highly educated then you can make your point.
What we do know is that African immigrants are a very select group, and that the only group that one might conceivably compare them to is Indians, who also are a highly educated group.
And yes many do attend college in the USA, but what you deliberately didn't mention is that most of them arrived in the USA with that goal in mind, and a student visa in hand. Clearly they had the education to support this, and given that Africa possesses the most uneducated people on this planet clearly this is a highly select group.
Please don't fool yourself that people arrive from the fetid ghettos of Lagos and then prance right into Harvard. No those types, storm the beaches of Spain, as they seek to escape the hopelessness and poverty of Africa.
Nice try. It is only now that they are no longer eligible. That lottery was around for a long time now.
Aren't you ashamed that you are compared to illiterate ghetto dwellers, when your family didn't come from the urban ghettoes of West Africa? Why do you think that is a valid comparison? Why would you not do better? Indeed isn't it silly that such a comparison is even made?
Do you not think that West Africans, who are MORE educated than Indians, ought to be compared to them to determine how well they do? So why do West Africans have LOWER incomes, and higher poverty rates and unemployment than do Indians, when they are more educated?
I amazed that you don't think that this is a more worthy question than limiting the discussion to the fact that people who arrived with college degrees, or who arrived to attend US colleges, have higher levels of education than a random group of people.
If people from the ghettoes of Nigeria arrived, illiterate as ever, how well will they do? We do know from Europe that the answer will be not very well, lacking the tools to enter into the US labor force, and probably forced into the same marginal occupations that many are involved in continental Europe. If they didn't even complete primary school in Nigeria do you really think that they will graduate college in the USA?
If it turns out that racism plays a role in the under performance of Nigerians and other black Africans, when we look at their earnings, then why focus on how they out perform black Americans? Inst it more useful to determine why they under perform groups with comparable levels of education? What are Indians doing that Nigerians aren't doing? Is the USA more accepting of Indians than it is of Nigerians.
These are the questions that you ought to be asking, instead of basking in the "glory" that a highly educated group outperforms one which has been broken down by Jim Crow, and is now struggling to crawl out of that legacy.
Does that help them deal with the barriers which apparently hold them back? You know it will not shock me if, an adjustment for levels of education will reveal black Americans out performing Nigerians. And such an adjustment will need to be made to allow a proper comparison to be made, because you know full well that Nigerian migration to the USA isn't of random groups of people representing the full spectrum of that nation's population.
The lottery has been around since about the 90s, Nigerians have been coming long before that and even when they were allowed under the program their numbers were always low compared to their population. The diversity lottery has not been a great source of Nigerian migrants. Try again.
I hate this arguement but let me give you the short version. The Nigerians coming to the US are from well to do middle class families. The hit the glass ceiling at home, so they came here. These are also the extra motivated people. The group of African immigrants here is pretty self selecting. So they've already got a head start when they get here. They likely went to private school, lived in a gated community at home and had all the trappings of middle to upper middle class life.
And just like here, if you start off with middle class or higher upbringing, your chance for success is really high.
Yes, some immigrants weren't able to transfer there professional licenses over right away, so they do "basic jobs" in the US. Or they are among the few not so educated people who come over. What that person lacks in education, they make up for it in drive. You have to be extra motivated to travel, halfway across the world to make a fresh start abroad. You aren't a "regular person" in terms of motivation, so you will try everything you can to succeed.
But most are coming over with a privileged background. Next time you meet a Nigerian cab driver, ask him what he studied in school. He'll likely tell you about his BS. Or ask if he had a car and driver at home. Odds are, he probably did. 75% of the Nigerians I know surely did. Their parents have masters degrees.
So these Nigerians are succeeded because they are starting off with privilege. Just like their middle class black peers.
Agreed and that kicks "racism" from NON "Black" people as the number 1 reason why many American Blacks don't take care of business into the trash can.
some body said middle class would be more successful. what the different from middle class and low class. mainly, they have a daddy that has a job, a daddy that takes them to soccer games on weekend, a daddy that makes them do their homework, a daddy that make sure they not running the streets
its all about education, and no inner city schools are just as good as others compared to the money spend.
A lot of Nigerians are conservative church-going Catholics. Strong family values, well-behaved kids. I suspect not many have children out-of-wedlock or expect to live off government handouts.
That makes Nigerian-Americans natural enemies of liberals.
Do you not think that West Africans, who are MORE educated than Indians, ought to be compared to them to determine how well they do? So why do West Africans have LOWER incomes, and higher poverty rates and unemployment than do Indians, when they are more educated?
Merely having a certain degree (Bachelor's, Master's, Doctorate) doesn't determine your earning power. You can't expect people with a 4-year degree from BFE State University to earn the same as someone with 4-year degree from Wharton. Nor can you expect someone with a 4-year degree in sociology to earn the same as someone with a 4-year degree in mechanical engineering.
Secondly, where are you getting that West Africans are more educated than Indians?
According to the Census Bureau Fact finder 2012 American Community Survey 1-Year Estimates:
72.2% of Indian Americans (Census classifies them as Asian Indian) over 25 have a Bachelor's degree or higher, 39.7% have a graduate or professional degree.
62.3% of Nigerian Americans over 25 have a Bachelor's degree or higher, 26.7% have a graduate or professional degree.
So Nigerian Americans aren't more educated than Indian Americans, and I highly doubt other West African nationalities are considering that Nigerians are supposed to be the highest educated amongst them.
Furthermore:
Quote:
Despite constituting less than 1% of the U.S. population, Indian-Americans are 3% of the nation’s engineers, 7% of its IT workers and 8% of its physicians and surgeons. The overrepresentation of Indians in these fields is striking–in practical terms, your doctor is nine times more likely to be an Indian-American than is a random passerby on the street.
It's not hard to figure out why Indian Americans' median household income is so high considering that they're 9x overrepresented as medical doctors, a field which usually pays about $250-500,000 a year, and also highly overrepresented in the engineering and IT fields.
Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 03-09-2014 at 02:57 PM..
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