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Old 03-03-2014, 11:56 AM
 
13,853 posts, read 5,564,410 times
Reputation: 8533

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Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
I wish that those who offer criticism over President Obama's lack of tools to work with, regarding Ukraine, would offer some of their own advise.
Based on many actions elsewhere over the last 5 years, Obama's only real option regarding Ukraine is to hit Russia as hard as he can in their wallets. Most other sanction/energy export/diplomatic efforts will take years to take any measurable effect, much less back down an ex-KGB thug in his own backyard. And neocon knuckleheads suggesting a show of force with the USS Bush in the Black sea have this absurd notion that carriers are awe inspiring to opposing navies as they are to juvenile notions of "big = awesome."

Obama's own policies, compounding Dubyah, Clinton and GHWB's policies towards Russia have boxed him in, and his own domestic agenda, like crushing carbon based energy production, running up massive debt and endless printing of fiat money (for more, see "Russia and China reducing USD in national currency and debt portfolios"), etc have basically removed all his serious economic options. Toss in his acquiescence on Syria and backing away from/tap dancing semantically on the "red line" and add in Dubyah not doing anything regarding Georgia, and Putin should properly feel safe and cozy smacking Ukraine around in Crimea, and even going further.

The day before they invaded, they told Kerry they wouldn't and Kerry said he was assured by the Kremlin there was nothing to worry about and we should believe them. Point being, talk and speeches does nothing but provide opportunities for Russia to make the US look like clowns. So stop talking about stuff you cannot or will not do, and just use the global financial system to make the Russian wealthy feel pain that will then be transferred to the Kremlin. It's all Obama really has at this point, but would require political courage, given how embedded the American and Euro rich are with the Russian rich. Germany has already declared that Russia must remain a G8 member, and China has officially backed their Crimea action. So it would take political will I have never seen from him, but Obama only has "mess with finances, hope the oligarchy pressures Vlad" left.

But for sure, he needs to stop making hollow speeches, and he sure as hell needs to shut Kerry and Carney up. Every time any of the three speaks at this point, they basically give Putin a chance to humiliate the US.

 
Old 03-03-2014, 11:56 AM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,666,932 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post

Or are you saying anything at all?...
projection!
 
Old 03-03-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Now Gazprom is threatening Europe, following Kerry's comments “isolate Russia economically,” crash the rouble and impose other crippling sanctions.
Gazprom and Europe have been threatening each other for over 10 years now.
They have a love/hate relationship and neither one wants to end it.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Allendale MI
2,523 posts, read 2,199,030 times
Reputation: 698
To defeat Putin, turn Ukraine into an economic winner - The Globe and Mail
 
Old 03-03-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,423,185 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
projection!
...and there's another one with nothing to add.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,024 posts, read 51,075,331 times
Reputation: 28216
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The UK has already said military action is not on their table and not being discussed.
Only diplomatic or economic action.

The US is the only one acting like a rabid dog on a leash in the ring waiting to be set free.
No other country is as vocal as us with the "threats" to Russia.
We're making *sses out of ourselves just like we did with Syria.


And where's Biden in all this ? Wasn't he the professed great "foreign affairs expert" ?
Oh yeah..he's in AZ trying to get Canadian citizens on vacation signed up for Obamacare
I agree with you. How is it that we are such freaking war-mongers. With all the suffering for nothing we have been through since WWII, you would think we would be the last people to want bloodshed. We have to start tuning out loud mouth militarists like McCain.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 11:59 AM
 
9,240 posts, read 8,651,307 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Gazprom and Europe have been threatening each other for over 10 years now.
They have a love/hate relationship and neither one wants to end it.
Putin is playing chess.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
I agree with you. How is it that we are such freaking war-mongers. With all the suffering for nothing we have been through since WWII, you would think we would be the last people to want bloodshed. We have to start tuning out loud mouth militarists like McCain.
McCain was on a plane and over in Kiev shaking hands with the new coup leaders.
He called the COUP an "incredible display of patriotism".

This is what the US stands for now.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:03 PM
 
Location: San Francisco born/raised - Las Vegas
2,825 posts, read 2,094,657 times
Reputation: 1900
The President should have never thrown his $0.02 on to the table, period.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,024 posts, read 51,075,331 times
Reputation: 28216
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Putin is playing chess.
Perhaps. But he is gambling with other people's money. Russian oligarchs would pay a very high price for cutting off the gas. If the objective is to be certain that the Russian base remains viable in a pro-Western Urkraine, there are far less risky ways to go about it. If the objective is Russian domination of Ukraine and a new "iron curtain" that is just economic suicide for Russia's billionaire's including Putin. Ain't gonna happen.
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