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Old 03-08-2014, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
577 posts, read 512,448 times
Reputation: 470

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
I don't see why lawmakers can't do both of these things.

The point is that if abortions are going to continue no matter what, then the focus should be on prevention of unwanted pregnancies and services that ensure that women will get the help they need if they will go ahead and have the child. Policies to close abortion facilities are nothing more than a political card played by politicians. It has nothing to do with the well being of women or protecting children.

 
Old 03-08-2014, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,373 posts, read 3,228,757 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Someone needs to read Biology 101.
Life starts outside the womb once the first breath is taken. By all means, read up on Biology 101.
 
Old 03-08-2014, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,373 posts, read 3,228,757 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post
There is no war on women
Those perpetrating are those who claim it doesn't exist. You're wrong, but think whatever you want.

Quote:
You are on the wrong side of history. It's only a matter of time before the whole world realizes it.
Woman's body, woman's choice. Period.

Quote:
PRO LIFE 4 LIFE
PRO CHOICE SO REJOICE
 
Old 03-08-2014, 07:07 PM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,870,163 times
Reputation: 2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Abortion and infanticide are obviously not the same thing, but for the record, some individuals (such as Peter Singer, Michael Tooley, Mary Anne Warren, the authors of the After-Birth Abortion paper, et cetera) do not consider both embryos/fetuses and infants to be persons/worthy of rights.
I have never been a big fan of Peter Singer and I am aware of those people and I agree that I think they are dangerous and sick.

However, I do not consider a fetus to be a person on the grounds that it depends entirely on the mother's body for its survival, it cannot survive outside of the womb without medical assistance (and even then that is only for the last stages of pregnancy), and it also does not have any significant cognitive capacity.
 
Old 03-08-2014, 07:13 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Life starts outside the womb once the first breath is taken. By all means, read up on Biology 101.
Doubling down on dumb.
 
Old 03-08-2014, 08:51 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,591,580 times
Reputation: 16439
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Life starts outside the womb once the first breath is taken. By all means, read up on Biology 101.
Biology doesn't say that.
 
Old 03-08-2014, 09:23 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,795,404 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctk0p7 View Post
The point is that if abortions are going to continue no matter what, then the focus should be on prevention of unwanted pregnancies and services that ensure that women will get the help they need if they will go ahead and have the child. Policies to close abortion facilities are nothing more than a political card played by politicians. It has nothing to do with the well being of women or protecting children.
The thing is that if all else remains equal, then bans on most abortions might very well reduce the number of abortions. After all, not all females who will want abortions will actually get them if most abortions are banned.

Thus, I am not opposed to your idea of having a (very) large focus on the prevention of unwanted pregnancies and on holding needy pregnant females and mothers out. However, it might very well be better to do both of these things (prevention + bans on most abortions) in combination instead of doing only one of these things.
 
Old 03-08-2014, 09:24 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,795,404 times
Reputation: 1930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
I have never been a big fan of Peter Singer and I am aware of those people and I agree that I think they are dangerous and sick.

However, I do not consider a fetus to be a person on the grounds that it depends entirely on the mother's body for its survival, it cannot survive outside of the womb without medical assistance (and even then that is only for the last stages of pregnancy), and it also does not have any significant cognitive capacity.
Out of genuine curiosity--do you think that human beings who are on dialysis and/or who need kidney/bone marrow/blood/liver part transplants/transfusions are not persons due to the fact that they cannot survive by themselves (for long, at least) either?

As for cognitive capacity, how much cognitive capacity exactly do you think that one should have in order to be considered a person?
 
Old 03-08-2014, 11:28 PM
 
259 posts, read 151,444 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
And if you're raped? What are your choices then, in south Texas?

You can give birth to another republican....
 
Old 03-08-2014, 11:40 PM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,870,163 times
Reputation: 2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Out of genuine curiosity--do you think that human beings who are on dialysis and/or who need kidney/bone marrow/blood/liver part transplants/transfusions are not persons due to the fact that they cannot survive by themselves (for long, at least) either?

As for cognitive capacity, how much cognitive capacity exactly do you think that one should have in order to be considered a person?
The main difference is that the fetus needs the live off the body of the mother. Let's say for example, that one day you woke up to another person attached to you. They were half formed and in a vegetative state and relied solely on your body for survival. Would you be wrong in having them surgically removed? Even if they probably would be able to become a functional human being in due time?

And someone know needs a blood or bone marrow transplant to survive is a bit different. It is not like they will come up to you and suck the blood from your body in order to live. You have the choice to donate blood or bone marrow, but you are not forced to.

I will admit there a definite gray area with abortion. Specifically the last stages when birth can be induced and there is little need for medical care for the fetus. In those cases, I think the comparisons between abortion and infanticide are not inappropriate. However, the majority of abortions are during the first trimester and very few "Partial-birth abortions" carried out on a healthy fetus in the third trimester.
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