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Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
The kochs are libertarians? Who knew?
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It's 2014....Kochs are Libertarians.
In 2015, the Koch Bros will be Liberals. In 2016, they'll be Conservatives, and in 2017 they'll be Libertarians, again, unless the goal-posts are moved and they are labeled as Socialists or Communists.
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Originally Posted by brentwoodgirl
I love how "subsidies" has become a code word for tax write offs.
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It's quite Orwellian.
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Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey
The free market, right? I wonder how libertarians would defend this.
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Since they can't even get someone elected to a school board, I doubt they'd know how to defend it.
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Consider Charles and David Koch. Their company, Koch Industries, has relied on $88 million worth of government handouts.
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Which government?
The illegal-national-government-masquerading-as-a-federal-government? State government(s)? County or municipal governments?
What kind of handouts?
That's the kind of questions a Critical Thinker would ask, especially dealing with a propaganda artist, like the twit who wrote that nonsense.....and you can tell him that from me.
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Yet, as the major financiers of the anti-government right, the Kochs are still billed as libertarian free-market activists.
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A Straw Man Fallacy, just to name one of several here.
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Similarly, behold the big tech firms. They are often portrayed as self-made success stories. Yet, as Good Jobs First shows, they are among the biggest recipients of the subsidies.
Intel leads the tech pack with 58 subsidies worth $3.8 billion. Next up is IBM, which has received more than $1 billion in subsidies. Most of that is from New York—a state proudly promoting its corporate handouts in a new ad campaign.
Then there’s Google’s $632 million and Yahoo’s $260 million—both sets of subsidies primarily from data center deals. And not to be forgotten is 38 Studios, the now bankrupt software firm that received $75 million in Rhode Island taxpayer cash. The company received the handout at the very moment Rhode Island was pleading “poverty” to justify cuts to public workers’ retirement benefits.
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Those are all States.
You still don't have a clue what a Free Market is, but for the benefit of others....
There are 1,539 separately functioning economies in the united States --- the US government says so....as it is written, it is done...Pharaoh has spoken.
Each and every one of those 1,539 separately functioning economies is a Market unto itself, and each one of those Markets competes against all other Markets for Capital.
Those 1,539 Markets are sub-sets of 375 larger Markets, which all compete for Capital.
Those 375 large Markets are grouped within States (although they occasionally over-lap State boundaries) and each of the 50 States competes against all other States for Capital.
And the 50 united States are a subset of a large State -- the United States --- and it competes against all other [foreign] States for Capital.
And the whole Earth competes against other worlds in our sector of the galaxy for Capital; and our sector of the galaxy competes against all other galactic sectors of the Milky Way, and the Milky Way Galaxy competes for Capital against all other galaxies; and our Universe competes against all other universes for Capital until no more Capital exists.
The moron who wrote the idiot blog is too damn dense to understand that States compete against other States to retain existing Capital and to acquire new Capital.
States -- and also counties, cities and municipalities have found it easier to offer tax credits and tax rebates, than to do their job, which is to govern.
That is very harmful to all Americans.
You need a federal law or constitutional amendment to level the playing field, so that governments at State level and below are prohibited from offering any tax credits or tax rebates of any kind, or any other cash or financial incentives.
How then would States and cities compete?
How about good government? Gosh, what a concept.
I'm relocating my corporate headquarters and its 12,000 employees. In the absence of tax credits, tax rebates and financial incentives, which city will I choose?
The one with the lowest crime rate (security), best organized and equipped fire (safety), best emergency services, cleanest and safest drinking water, most efficient and safest sewage disposal, most efficient garbage removal, and most robust infrastructure that is immaculately maintained.
But even that would never be good enough for my employees. They need above average public and private schools, green-space....and lots of it, including dog parks, biking, hiking and walk trails, efficient rapid mass transit, lots of arts and entertainment and sporting venues, and really good dining, and, no, corporate big box brick restaurants are not good dining.
And low taxes.
How do you get those things? Good government, and the government that governs least is the best government,
and the government the governs least is the government that coordinates services, instead of providing them.
That puts the onus on the voters.
And if the voters cannot get their act together, then Double Darwin on them.
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Along with propping up companies that are supposedly free-market icons, the subsidies are also flowing to financial firms that have become synonymous with never-ending bailouts. Indeed, companies like Goldman Sachs, Bank of America and Citigroup—each of which were given massive taxpayer subsidies during the financial crisis—are the recipients of tens of millions of dollars in additional subsidies.
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I agree....let the banks fail, but then I am able to deal with the consequences, which are of no consequence to me.
9 out of 10 people screaming "
Let the banks fail!" are just talking crap. They couldn't handle the reality for more than a few hours, before they'd eat their words and be on their knees begging for the government to bail out the banks.
It's even more ironic that government created the problem in the first place.
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All of these handouts, of course, would be derided if they were going to poor people. But because they are going to extremely wealthy politically connected conglomerates, they are typically promoted with cheery euphemisms like “incentives” or “economic development.” Those euphemisms persist even though many subsidies do not end up actually creating jobs.
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Poor people don't create jobs; they give nothing back to society, and I would be willing to accept that, but poor people are counter-productive to society and cost society more money than they are worth.
Competitively...
Mircea
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