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Old 03-17-2014, 03:21 AM
 
12,268 posts, read 6,430,308 times
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Where did you get the idea that the ACA was intended to compete with employer based health plans?
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:23 AM
 
91 posts, read 72,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Where did you get the idea that the ACA was intended to compete with employer based health plans?
Maybe after the past few years of obama talking about it like it's the greatest thing that ever happened to mankind.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:25 AM
 
12,268 posts, read 6,430,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amabokcuf View Post
Maybe after the past few years of obama talking about it like it's the greatest thing that ever happened to mankind.
If you had a pre-existing condition you might feel the same way.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:27 AM
 
91 posts, read 72,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
If you had a pre-existing condition you might feel the same way.
What if I was one of the many people who's insurance was cancelled because of it? Or lost their doctor because of it?
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:51 AM
 
12,268 posts, read 6,430,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amabokcuf View Post
What if I was one of the many people who's insurance was cancelled because of it? Or lost their doctor because of it?
In that case you could end up spending more money for a better policy. Plans that were in place since March of 2010 (before the ACA) were "Grandfathered" and excluded from many of the laws requirements so that they wouldn`t be canceled. The ACA doesn`t force those plans to remain and it doesn`t force them to be canceled. Insurance companies have deliberately sent out these cancellation notices ALONG WITH automatic renewals into higher rate plans. It`s an insurance industry scam to gouge their customers and blame Obama for it and prevent them from taking advantage of the better coverage and savings that the ACA provides. Here`s a guy who didn`t get scammed and he`s saving 15K a year.

President Obama Singles Out Leetsdale Man During Healthcare Speech « CBS Pittsburgh
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,308,025 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
yet no one has actually explained what they disagree with about what he said. repeating "that is not freedom" in not an explanation
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
Another thread proving that if President Obama said it, Conservatives will oppose it.
And people wonder why this nation is so divided, this thread is the only example needed.
The man says something non controversial and it becomes a fire fight only because he said it.

This is a debate over the definition of a word, so no explanation is required. "By definition" is sufficient argument here.

definition of freedom:
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrriam Webster
the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action
Anyone who can't see that "freedom" and "mandate" are mutually exclusive is perhaps a lost cause.

Nonetheless I again will post the explanation that I posted prior to your complaint that no explanations had been posted. If you put a wild animal in a cage, giving it all the food, water, warmth, and veterinary care it needs, have you given it "freedom?" Obviously not. You may have given security, but certainly not freedom.

What this shows is that not only do liberals love to redefine words, they don't seem even recognize when it is done. Thus, objection to a redefinition is misinterpreted as objection on the basis that "President Obama said it.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,762 posts, read 40,870,361 times
Reputation: 62051
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
I don't see what's wrong with this. Please tell me why each is so horrible.
Because it's not the definition of freedom. How many times does this guy have to call things something else and everybody just lays down and accepts it?

Obama
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:18 PM
 
45,352 posts, read 26,931,892 times
Reputation: 23736
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Obama's Orwellian View Of Freedom

In a recent speech to the Democratic National Committee, the president lamented that "we've let the other side define the word 'freedom' for too long." Then, as he often does, Obama set up a straw man argument, claiming to Republicans freedom means "what's in it for me?" or "I've got no obligations to anybody."

Of course his interpretation is entirely wrong of what freedom is. He sets us his self made straw man as a platform to redefine what freedom is.

"Freedom," he said, "is the peace of mind of knowing that if you got sick, you won't lose everything.

"Freedom is the ability to change jobs and start a new business, chase a new idea without fear of losing your health insurance.

"Freedom is signing for that new home and knowing it can't be taken from you because you actually understand what you're signing.

"Freedom is getting that new credit card and knowing the stakes and understanding how you're going to manage it.

"Freedom is the knowledge that ... you're not going to be treated like a second-class person once we fix our broken immigration system. That's freedom."



These are not facets of freedom. Freedom has nothing to do with outcome or results.

Freedom is about a person living as they want to live (without infringing upon others), which includes enjoying and supporting ourselves as we see fit. This doesn't mean that all things will turn out like we want. At minimum, we should be holding to the freedoms defined in the framework documents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
I don't see what's wrong with this. Please tell me why each is so horrible.
I had not responded to this on page 1.

Let's spell out the contrary.

If you get sick and lose everything, then you are not free.

If you can't change jobs or start a new business without losing your health insurance, then you are not free.

The inability of a person to understand what documents they are signing when purchasing a home, means they are not free.

When a person is unable to understand and manage credit card risks to their own detriment, then that person is not free.

A person is not free based if someone else treats them as a second class citizen.



The fact is freedom is unchanged regardless of what occurs in the circumstances mentioned above.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:24 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,214,458 times
Reputation: 55551
He is not preaching freedom he is preaching welfare state easy credit and preferential immigration for mexico he is preaching privilege of minority status instead earned right to a share of the pie
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:30 PM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,649,593 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Obama's Orwellian View Of Freedom

In a recent speech to the Democratic National Committee, the president lamented that "we've let the other side define the word 'freedom' for too long." Then, as he often does, Obama set up a straw man argument, claiming to Republicans freedom means "what's in it for me?" or "I've got no obligations to anybody."

Of course his interpretation is entirely wrong of what freedom is. He sets us his self made straw man as a platform to redefine what freedom is.

{snip}
Obama cannot give a policy speech without creating an army of straw men to prop it up, his positions need a straw man because they are too weak to stand on their own.

It's the same old tired shtick every time, the barbarian straw men are at the gates, and only brave, brave Sir Robin.... errr... I mean, Obama, can save us from them.
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