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Exactly right. Religion has embraced science, whether these people choose to admit it or not. THEY are the ones who can't tolerate religion. They have become the thing they rage against; closed minded and intolerant.
It says a lot that they'll discuss String, Multiverse, Quantum Mechanics, and believe that everything came from nothing (Big Bang) yet somehow "know that God doesn't exist" It's hypocritical at best, because even God, divine intervention, and intelligent design are valid theories.
No. "God, divine intervention and intelligent design" are not valid scientific theories. Not by a long shot. They are religious beliefs.
A Scientific Theory is a "well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions."
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Originally Posted by surfman
God said "Let there be light" and there was light. Sounds like a big bang to me.
In Genesis 1, it says that God made the earth and he oceans BEFORE he said "Let there be light".
And Genesis describes the flat earth beliefs of the ancient Hebrews.
Isaiah and Job describe the earth as round, and Job describes the earth as "hanging on nothing" as in suspended in space well before science ever understood this.
No. "God, divine intervention and intelligent design" are not valid scientific theories. Not by a long shot. They are religious beliefs.
A Scientific Theory is a "well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions."
In Genesis 1, it says that God made the earth and he oceans BEFORE he said "Let there be light".
And Genesis describes the flat earth beliefs of the ancient Hebrews.
No, the scientists in the 15th century thought the earth was flat.
I find it intolerable that people of little religion choose to refer to the bible as if they know it. The first thing they fail to understand is that Christianity is based on the New testament. You'll also find that the vast majority of us are not literalists, yet people like you continue to yap as if we all are. You probably believe all religious folk believe the earth was created in a week too.
You're nit picking about the order of creation, while saying such things are not valid. How cute is that?
Quote:
It's hypocritical at best, because even God, divine intervention, and intelligent design are valid theories.
I never said God was a valid "scientific" theory. God doesn't need to be validated by science, and scientists are having a difficult enough time validating their own theories; let alone take on God. Maybe that's why they choose to erase him. A theory is just that, which makes nearly any possibility valid.
Is it possible that we live in a multiverse and there are infinite versions of reality? I guess it's possible, and certainly many scientists believe it is.
Is it possible that there was a divine intervention in the creation of the universe? The incredible odds of such a perfect thing coming from nothing makes intelligent design a logical theory. It would certainly explain the big bang. God said "let it be" and it was. He never told it to stop, which would help to explain why we have an expanding universe.
You can argue until you're blue in the face. Religion accepts science, but science has no room for religion. It's a fact.
Even GodlessGeeks have a clue:
Few people might be aware of this: There are passages in the Bible that coincide with scientific principles that weren't discovered by scientists until hundreds of years after the Bible had been written. Here are some examples:
Source: http://www.bible.ca/b-science-evidences.htm
You may be surprised to learn that the Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6.
Isaiah and Job describe the earth as round, and Job describes the earth as "hanging on nothing" as in suspended in space well before science ever understood this.
Yes, Isaiah 40:20 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
No. "God, divine intervention and intelligent design" are not valid scientific theories. Not by a long shot. They are religious beliefs.
A Scientific Theory is a "well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions."
In Genesis 1, it says that God made the earth and he oceans BEFORE he said "Let there be light".
And Genesis describes the flat earth beliefs of the ancient Hebrews.
The multiverse, among other things, is not a valid discussion at all....but yet they still have it. Or maybe it is valid because, no matter how absurd it is, people who don't believe in any creation are having it?
No, the scientists in the 15th century thought the earth was flat.
I think you may be confusing the belief in geocentrism with a belief in a flat earth. There were people as early as Pythagoras and Aristotle in ancient Greece who thought the earth was spherical. (But not the ancient Hebrews)
Look up the 'myth of the flat earth'. You are repeating a common misconception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
I find it intolerable that people of little religion choose to refer to the bible as if they know it.
I find it hilarious that so many "people of religion" don't know very much about the Bible at all. Many have never even read it all, let alone studied it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
The first thing they fail to understand is that Christianity is based on the New testament.
So why bring up Genesis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
You'll also find that the vast majority of us are not literalists, yet people like you continue to yap as if we all are. You probably believe all religious folk believe the earth was created in a week too.
I'm well aware that the majority of Christians are not Biblical literalists (although there are certainly a lot of biblical literalists in the US) and don't believe in a literal Genesis and a 6000 year old earth, or that it was created in a week. Did I say anywhere that all Christians were biblical literalists? No. So please stop misrepresenting what I wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
You're nit picking about the order of creation, while saying such things are not valid. How cute is that?
Just quoting the Bible, like you did. I just happen to know the order better than you do apparently. The order doesn't even make sense unless you understand how the ancient Hebrews viewed their world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
I never said God was a valid "scientific" theory. God doesn't need to be validated by science, and scientists are having a difficult enough time validating their own theories; let alone take on God. Maybe that's why they choose to erase him. A theory is just that, which makes nearly any possibility valid.
Perhaps it would help if you were to learn what a scientific theory is? And what the word 'valid' means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
Is it possible that there was a divine intervention in the creation of the universe? The incredible odds of such a perfect thing coming from nothing makes intelligent design a logical theory.
Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory, nor is it 'logical'. It's a religious belief. It doesn't even come close to explaining all the evidence. Especially all the evidence of UNintelligent 'design' and 'IMperfections'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
It would certainly explain the big bang. God said "let it be" and it was. He never told it to stop, which would help to explain why we have an expanding universe.
And how do you explain "God"? What created "God"? What did this "God" create the Universe from? The "God" concept just poses even more questions. And which 'God' anyway? Yours? There have been many different gods created by humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
You can argue until you're blue in the face. Religion accepts science, but science has no room for religion. It's a fact.
You can argue until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that many religious people reject science especially if they think it contradicts their religious beliefs. (Note, I did not specify Christians, nor did I say ALL religious people).
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
Even GodlessGeeks have a clue:
Few people might be aware of this: There are passages in the Bible that coincide with scientific principles that weren't discovered by scientists until hundreds of years after the Bible had been written. Here are some examples:
Source: Scientific evidences of the Bible's inspiration
Uh huh.... sure. Did you even read the nonsense in the link you provided? I repeat, you may want to look up the "The myth of the flat earth". It's a misconception that the people in your link ignorantly repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfman
You may be surprised to learn that the Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6.
So next time you feel the need to be a historical and biblical scholar, do a little research first.
Next time you feel the need to pretend to be a historical and biblical scholar, do a little honest research first.
The links you gave actually show that those people DO reject science. They make a lot of ignorant claims: eg they claim it was Copernicus who discovered that the "earth was round" in 1475 (uh no) and claim that the Biblical writers wrote the earth was round (they didn't - the ancient Hebrews thought the earth was a flat disc).
They also used dishonest methods like misrepresenting what Darwin said in their quote mine. To me that shows they either hadn't even read Darwin's book and copied their claim from some other anti-science religious website, or they deliberately lied about what Darwin said. They didn't even get the name of the book right.
If someone has to use dishonesty and wilful ignorance to reject science because of their religious beliefs, that doesn't say much about their religious beliefs or their integrity.
Yes, Isaiah 40:20 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
Yep, a flat disk with a firmament over it. Resting on foundations over the waters of the Deep and Sheol. See the drawing I posted showing the ancient Hebrew view of their world. And some examples of the biblical texts describing it.
Even GodlessGeeks have a clue:
Few people might be aware of this: There are passages in the Bible that coincide with scientific principles that weren't discovered by scientists until hundreds of years after the Bible had been written. Here are some examples:
Source: Scientific evidences of the Bible's inspiration
If you read further you can see why they thought it was funny. There are so many really basic ignorant errors, it's ridiculous.
Apart from being totally wrong about Copernicus and mixing up his heliocentric view with the nonsense idea that he was the 'first' scientist to discover that the earth was 'round', there is the nonsense claim that Tycho Brahe supposedly thought that there were only 777 stars and Kepler thought there were only 1005.
Tycho Brahe started a table on his observations of the movements of stars and planets. By the time he died, he had written down his observations and calculations of 777 stars. Kepler took over his work and expanded the tables to the observations of the movements of 1005 stars.
They did NOT claim that they believed ONLY 777 or 1005 stars existed.
(Go look at the night sky from an area not near the lights of a city and you might realise just how stupid those religious apologists who made that claim about Tycho and Kepler really are)
And do a little research on the Rudophine star tables.
Next time you try to 'correct' someone else and self-righteously instruct them to "do a little research first", you might like to "do a little research first" yourself.
Originally Posted by surfman I find it intolerable that people of little religion choose to refer to the bible as if they know it.
Intolerable? This may shock you then....The Pew Forum’s religious knowledge survey included 32 questions about various aspects of religion: the Bible, Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, world religions, religion in public life, and atheism and agnosticism. Overall, the three groups that perform best in this survey are atheists and agnostics (who get an average of 20.9 out of 32 questions right), Jews (20.5 questions right on average) and Mormons (20.3 questions right). Who Knows What About Religion | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project
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I repeat, you may want to look up the "The myth of the flat earth". It's a misconception that the people in your link ignorantly repeat.