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Old 03-28-2014, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 2,279,735 times
Reputation: 1072

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
So you dont think people owned property 100 years ago either..

.
I thought I made it pretty clear that without a means to address grievances, talk of rights is just talk. Without the means to address violations, your piece of paper saying you own something is just paper. Your inability to understand this doesn't surprise me.

Last edited by CaseyB; 03-29-2014 at 04:31 AM.. Reason: off topic/discussing moderation
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 2,279,735 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
natural rights, political fact that maintains that an individual enters into society with certain basic rights and that no government can deny.
Those rights aren't natural, they're an aspect of the society one's born into. They are a social construct, not delivered from on high.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:36 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,426,054 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilt11 View Post
Serious question. They claim to be the voice for the poor and oppressed, yet many of the biggest voices are swimming in money. Why? They cant spend all of that money. Why let it sit when you can cut a check an extra check to the government or give it to the poor?

Or is the point really that its other peoples money you want to demonize and be used?

IMO, its not about their bs "cause" at all. Its about money and power. They dont give a damn about the causes they preach of, they care about themselves. If they really, really believed a lot of the crap they say, they would feel guilty about having so much money and would give most of their wealth away and live more middle class like. But they wont, they're hypocritical deceivers.

So, it really requires you to actually understand people and their beliefs, instead of creating fake strawman based on your hopes, dreams, and desire for people who disagree with you.

It actually starts with you, the answer. Because you really start it with this broad list of assumptions that are not aligned to 90% of reality.

1) What is a wealthy liberal's belief. Are you talking Bono? Bill Gates? etc.

What is their belief centered on? What do they believe. Some are liberal in the extent of social policies (where i place myself). some are liberal on economic policies (i.e. govt. healthcare)

there isn't a one size fits all. Some of these people are giving away all their money

some aren't


Its no different than these people who are ultra conservative and very religious, and don't give the asked for amounts to charity.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,729,413 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
No. Without a means of addressing grievances or ensuring they're observed, talking of rights means absolutely nothing. And natural rights do not exist. They're as much a creation of society as traffic laws. I already explained how you're wrong once, it's strange that you continue to say things you know are false.



No, it's called a living document because it provides its own process for changing it.



Right. It's still nonsense. It's right-wingers jumping up and down saying "I want my way", nothing more.
The phrase "living document" is not about the document having the means for changing it, but the idea that it changes with the times and social values, culture, which is so flatly wrong, liberty is only meant to expend, not stagnate and contract..not be susceptible to the flaws of the human condition based on opinions, feelings and popularity.


Leftist dont want it "my way the highway" We want the nation returned to limited government, secure borders, sound money, and get the federal government back to its proper roles..
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,729,413 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The government by nature PROTECTS your rights.

Evidently someplace where they taught morals and logical thinking, as opposed to where so many right-wingers went to school.
Lol, leftist having morals and logical thinking ability.

coming from the very group that oppose securing the Southern Border, A favors limiting the rights of law abiding citizens to defend themselves over criminals and tyrants..
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,729,413 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Back at ya.

They do. Not all of them. Not all at once. And they are not continually violated. But without government protecting people's rights, other people, cruel and callous people, will have a field day violating the rights of the most vulnerable in our society. Even if you cannot bring yourself to admit it.

I'm going to ignore your attempt to claim that the last six messages were a bit of semantic triviality.

No one has said anything about taking from others. We've been talking about civic responsibility we all have to society. Even if you cannot bring yourself to admit that either. Trying to draw a comparison between your shoplifting son and society doing what it is supposed to do to best satisfy its obligations to its members is the ultimate in self-deception.
Funny who abuses the rights of citizens more? individual or the government? more over how can individuals abuse the rights of the others with help from a blind eye of the government?

Quote:
No one has said anything about taking from others. We've been talking about civic responsibility we all have to society.
Of course not, not yet, but that is always what happens, wealth is stolen on scams by elected officials for reelection, rights are limited and stripped away, all after the people are disarmed..



After 50 years of waging a "war on poverty" is their less poverty? No just massive entitlement programs so elected officials can buy votes by promising money from one group to another play the class and race card to all who stand up to them.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,729,413 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
It's not your back yard, it's mine. My corn, too. Without your government to address grievances ("hey kid, get off my lawn!"), what are you gonna do about it?
Well if your try to steal in most of American it will not end very kindly on the part of thief..
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,729,413 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
Those rights aren't natural, they're an aspect of the society one's born into. They are a social construct, not delivered from on high.
No, they are, we have just advanced enough to understand and accept them..

All men have the right of the following

To speak and speak freely with out repercussions
To keep a majority of the fruits of his labor.
The means to have a say in how he is governed
To see his culture, nation and race carry on
To have the means ability to defend his life, liberty, property, culture, and nation from those who wish to harm, plunder, usurp, enslave, dissolve, destroy, or exterminate it including domestic enemies.

These rights are that of all men, regardless what society they may reside in thinks.
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