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Old 03-25-2014, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Limbo
6,512 posts, read 7,544,447 times
Reputation: 6319

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An example from just the Twin Cities:

Quote:
...Divide that by 365 days, and you see that governments spends $5.59 million per day fixing and paving all those roads... OK, so then you take the number of trips per day (2.18 million) and divide it into the daily cost of $5.59 million, and you get $2.56. That's about how much tax money goes to subsidize the average car trip.
Here is the subsidy by mode:

System (2008) Subsidy per passenger/trip

Urban buses, local: $2.17
Suburban buses, local: $4.98
Express bus: $2.48
Light rail: $1.44


When it comes to public subsidies, Twin Cities light rail seems a bargain | MinnPost
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,161,783 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
And fuel taxes?
The fuel tax doesn't cover the full cost.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:05 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,982 posts, read 10,457,345 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
And fuel taxes?
Not even close.

Gasoline Taxes and Tolls Pay for Only a Third of State & Local Road Spending | Tax Foundation
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Interesting observation, the light rail car and two subway trains I was on this morning were all full. Is your post based on any tangible information or just an observation?
The half empty comment is an observation, not based on any facts. I'm quite certain that many trains are full and many are not.

Quote:
Also this thread should be in urban planning or a transportation forum and should be moved to the correct forum.
Maybe not. Rail is both political and a controversy.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:06 AM
 
45,201 posts, read 26,417,923 times
Reputation: 24964
How much is siphoned off for other purposes such as rail, bus, pensions, govt waste and corruption?
Im all for ending subsidies and let true cost determine whats best,you seem to want to subsidize only what you think has value and force others to pick up your tab.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,161,783 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
The half empty comment is an observation, not based on any facts. I'm quite certain that many trains are full and many are not.



Maybe not. Rail is both political and a controversy.
You didn't start this forum trying to tie it to anything political. How is your thread political?

Not basing your thread on facts basically means your observation is completely correct, you see empty trains and wonder what we are spending the money on. I see and ride full trains and know what we are spending the money on.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcee squared View Post
Are you speaking about light-rail, heavy-rail, or both? And what do you propose as an alternative?
My observation is local light rail and also buses. It's not based on studies.

The best solution is to help people travel LESS by working from home. For a fraction of the rail investment, we could outfit millions with a home office. More and more workers have little or no need to actually be in an office or store. Knowledge workers are increasing. People are buying more and more over the internet which reduces the demand for in store workers.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,982 posts, read 10,457,345 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
How much is siphoned off for other purposes such as rail, bus, pensions, govt waste and corruption?
Im all for ending subsidies and let true cost determine whats best,you seem to want to subsidize only what you think has value and force other to pick up your tab.
So you'd be OK with doubling the gas tax to reflect the true cost of operating roads?

And by the way, your tax dollars are already paying for roads you never use. Apparently that's wrong. Maybe you (and only you) should be exempt from gas taxes, would that make you happy?
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,161,783 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
How much is siphoned off for other purposes such as rail, bus, pensions, govt waste and corruption?
Im all for ending subsidies and let true cost determine whats best,you seem to want to subsidize only what you think has value and force other to pick up your tab.
So what is the true cost for local and state roads?
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
And highways aren't subsidized?
That's difficult to determine. A huge portion of our gas taxes go to projects other than roads. So funding is a complex mixture of sources.
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