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I tremble in my boots at what the left would do if I dared to support a political candidate on the right who upholds principles I agree with but the left disdains.
Gays know little about 'how to make friends and influence people' -- they are not making many friends and as for influencing people -- they're doing the opposite.
I guess the gay rights people think that only they have rights while they gleefully trample on the rights of others.
I know this particular situation appears to be that way - BUT the use of a Broad Brush is never correct in this or any other issue. Many Gays, many supporters of Equal Rights for all Gay Americans are appalled at what has happened at Mozilla. When extremist groups or those who don't bother to think before they act, take over the conversation ..... nothing good happens.
The Gay Rights Issue is important and it's about a LOT more than same sex marriage - it's about jobs, benefits, normal rights that Gay Americans don't have in our society. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the incident at Mozilla (which was perpetrated by a very narrow group) is indicative of the entire Gay Community or by those that support Equal Rights under our Constitution.
This was started by two disgruntled men that are in the Tech business and have an Ap company on March 27 - the company is Rarebit. It was picked up by what we know now, by 4 Mozilla Foundation employees and the Media ran with it without even verifying the information.
For whatever dumb reason - the Mozilla Foundation and Eich of the Mozilla Tech Company decided in a knee jerk moment to remove Eich from Mozilla permanently. They made a mistake, but you will learn in life that some mistakes just can't be corrected. There will be a lot of repercussions and unintended consequences from the Mozilla decision ...... don't compound that by blaming all Gays for what these very few people did. This Andrew Sullivan's fear and it is also my fear.
Extremists are a danger to any organization, especially when Media jumps on the bandwagon for headlines without checking information and the Low Information Crowd chimes in. It begins to compound the damage. The real damage here is not to Eich, it's to Mozilla and to the Gay Community - I feel absolutely sure that history (if it bothers at all) will show this in the end. Public opinion was trending in favor of Gay Rights - that is now changing because of these extremists and Low Information folks that don't have the capability to understand the Big Picture.
Phrases like Gay Mafia, Gaystapo, Revenge of the Gays, the Gay War on Thought are no joke - they become endemic. Even those on the Left are now saying these phrases. That is a serious problem.
For whatever dumb reason - the Mozilla Foundation and Eich of the Mozilla Tech Company decided in a knee jerk moment to remove Eich from Mozilla permanently. They made a mistake, but you will learn in life that some mistakes just can't be corrected. There will be a lot of repercussions and unintended consequences from the Mozilla decision ...... don't compound that by blaming all Gays for what these very few people did. This Andrew Sullivan's fear and it is also my fear.
Extremists are a danger to any organization, especially when Media jumps on the bandwagon for headlines without checking information and the Low Information Crowd chimes in. It begins to compound the damage. The real damage here is not to Eich, it's to Mozilla and to the Gay Community - I feel absolutely sure that history (if it bothers at all) will show this in the end. Public opinion was trending in favor of Gay Rights - that is now changing because of these extremists and Low Information folks that don't have the capability to understand the Big Picture.
Phrases like Gay Mafia, Gaystapo, Revenge of the Gays, the Gay War on Thought are no joke - they become endemic. Even those on the Left are now saying these phrases. That is a serious problem.
And my fear. It is amazing how many gay activists don't get this part of the equation.
And my fear. It is amazing how many gay activists don't get this part of the equation.
There's danger which ever way one goes, but on balance it seems to me that the greater danger is to act apologetic about the incident, or to pretend that the boycott against Eich was less legitimate than his support of prop 8.
By apologizing for the boycott you (not you specifically) are unintentionally legitimize prop 8. It creates the public impression that "people may agree or disagree with prop 8, but everyone - even gay people, agree it's a legitimate position to hold. Reasonable people can disagree on the issue sure, but it's not a morally repugnant stance."
From my point of view, prop 8 should be viewed as a moral outrage equivalent of Jim Crow laws or donating to the KKK. Everyone has the freedom to support those things if they would like, but with that freedom comes consequences.
I didn't join the boycott, or even know it was going on. I wouldn't be surprised if there never really was this big boycott people are making it out to be after the fact. But I don't feel sorry for Eich. If someone that had donated to the KKK 6 years ago wanted to run a company, I think boycotting it would be a completely legitimate tactic to express disapproval, just as I do with his support of prop 8.
As a purely tactical matter, I acknowledge there's some danger there, but the danger is less in supporting the boycott than apologizing for it. By supporting the boycott one is confirming that every one has the legal right to oppose equal rights for gay people, but society will reject you as a bigot if you do. By apologizing for it, you are creating the perception that reasonable people can disagree about whether gay people should have the rights of other human beings.
But I'm not gay, so I don't have to deal with any of the repercussions. I only believe that it is not only right, but best to support the boycott as a legitimate reaction to the moral outrage that was prop 8.
Probably. The fact that he chose to resign instead says a lot.
I can see why a person would resign if their right to have a private opinion or to participate in the political process, right, wrong, or indifferent, was questioned. I wouldn't want to work for an organization that didn't think I was entitled to participate legally in the political process. And, he didn't need to do it for the money, so he didn't just have to suck it up like most people, he could walk away.
On a personal level I have no issues with SSM. Were it up to me, you could marry anyone you wanted provided they were a consenting adult. Who am I to tell you how to define your family? But I've got to tell you, this incident has really ticked me off and it has left a nasty, nasty taste in my mouth. The man, by all accounts, gave no indication in the course of his employment that he treated employees or clients differently based on sexual orientation. No one had a single clue, and would still not, except the article listing all the names being published. This smacks of a level of intolerance that borders on fanaticism, and I am not too fond of any kind of fanaticism. Yes, it's true this incident will not impact the faithful advocates who are passionate about their side of the issue, they will not change their stance based on this action. But people like me, the ones who support SSM simply because they would like everyone to be treated fairly or be happy, we are motivated differently. With this incident, the SSM advocates aren't the ones treated unfairly in this case and are the ones who look like hypocrites and bullies. It is not in a cause's best interest to turn off allies who are not members of your group but lend you support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist
Apparently he repeatedly declined to answer when asked if he would donate to a similar initiative today.
Nor should he have to, anymore than he should have to tell who he voted for or plans to vote for.
On the other hand, Eich founded the company, and Eich was largely responsible for the development of Firefox and JavaScript.
Facts that credit his capabilities as CEO inconsequentially. Which is what I said in the message you replied to (but perhaps didn't bother reading).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
That sounds like a good background for a CEO.
A statement that demonstrates that you have no intention of writing substantively about the true qualifications for a CEO, and just want to post random self-ratifying claptrap. Sorry, but not interested.
And my fear. It is amazing how many gay activists don't get this part of the equation.
My point as well. They are hurting themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist
Probably. The fact that he chose to resign instead says a lot.
Apparently he repeatedly declined to answer when asked if he would donate to a similar initiative today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Why should he have to? That's an invasion of privacy.
There appears to be no sense of fairness on the part of gays, and on the left, where difference of views is involved.
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There appears to be no sense of fairness on the part of gays, and on the left, where difference of views is involved.