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Old 04-08-2014, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 5,000,282 times
Reputation: 3422

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikBEggs View Post
It won't. Forcing everyone to contribute is more fiscally responsible than the previous system.
The key word in your sentence is "FORCING", we are a government of the people, we are a Republic, we have a government of Man-over-Government, not Government-over-Man. Forcing the population to acquiesce to a policy at the threat of paying a "tax" we should call it for what it is a "fine", goes against the principals this country was founded upon. If they do it with healthcare then what else is next.

Madison wrote in the Federalist Papers in March of 1789 that: "The tyranny of the legislatures is the most formidable dread at present, and will be for long years. That of the executive will come it’s turn, but it will be at a remote period."

That remote period has been with us for awhile.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,364,890 times
Reputation: 2922
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikBEggs View Post
I suggest you do some research as to why single-payer UHC systems are far more cost-effective than the United States model.

(Hint: preventative health care)
The subject is not single payer, re read my question.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,364,890 times
Reputation: 2922
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
How was it paid for? They raided future payments to Medicare Part C, they added taxes, and they increased borrowing. If you use Paul Ryans math getting rid of the ACA will save about 1.3 trillion over the next 10 years and 24 million people will be uninsured. Medicare and Medicaid combined will be pushing 11 trillion dollars over the same period. Add in another 1.3 trillion for Tricare and VA and total government health care spending will be about 12.3 trillion. If you use Democrat math the cost of the ACA only increases the deficit by $650 billion or so because $700 billion was taken from Medicare.
See post 14 and you will see that there is no political will to make the cuts by either party in Medicare. And according to you and {D}s Obamacare increases the deficit by 650 billion dollars, so you agree with me it is not paid for and will drive up massive deficits in the future.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:42 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,451,622 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
The implosion of the dollar seems to be the Obama Economic Plan.

The warming cult will be happy as oil prices will rise astronomically.

Are you saying that fuel prices will necessarily skyrocket?
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,660,467 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
The blank taxpayer check called Obamacare was passed unilaterally by Democrats, and now Republicans are the bad guys when they balk at raising the debt ceiling again (and again) to cover that blank check?

What are they supposed to do, continue to borrow until the dollar implodes?
I agree. Obamacare is the cause of all the nation's problems, foreign and domestic.
Moderator cut: rude

Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-08-2014 at 11:16 PM..
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:36 AM
 
59,029 posts, read 27,290,738 times
Reputation: 14272
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
Not true. If you sign up for Medicare Parts Band D the government picks up 75% of the tab. So if you are paying $133 per month the government is paying another $400 per month. Pay roll taxes, taxes on SS, and contributions for B and D only come up to $340 billion a year. Uncle Sam has to come up with another $240 billion.
You really do have READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM.

I'll go real slow, just for YOU.

NOTHING IS FREE. You have to PAY for the insurances.

Now, if you don't like the payment structure, do something about it and quit trying to imply they "get it" for free and are moochers.
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:41 AM
 
59,029 posts, read 27,290,738 times
Reputation: 14272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
This correct. However the typical Medicare recipient gets 3X the benefits compared to what they put in.
And that's the rub.
And whose fault is that? Don't blame the recipients and call them moochers for getting what Congress has created and controls.

I think EVERY SINGLE GOV"T PROGRAM should go through a top to bottom review. The waste, fraud and abuse is rampant.

Is this the 3X the benefits number you are using?

"Consider an average-wage two-earner couple together earning $89,000 a year. Upon retiring in 2011, they would have paid $114,000 in Medicare payroll taxes during their careers. But they can expect to receive medical services – including prescriptions and hospital care – worth $355,000, or about three times what they put in. [...]"

The article fails to mention that in order to receive Medicare part B, C or D benefits, you have to pay for it. so, I think the 3 x number is a little misleading.

"The article mentions that all the money paid in taxes, whether for Social Security or Medicare, is not tucked away in an account to pay benefits in the future. Instead, it goes to current Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries. But the article doesn’t talk about the fact that a lot of the tax money allegedly collected for future benefits — the money in the trust funds — is used to pay for the the government’s daily consumption and gets replaced with IOUs. So, basically, whether one one paid a little or a lot into the system, it doesn’t mean one will get that money back in the future without the federal government increasing taxes and/or debt. And, of course, even increases in taxes and debts are unlikely to be enough to cover for the explosion in Medicare spending."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...onique-de-rugy

Last edited by Quick Enough; 04-09-2014 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:58 AM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,467,936 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
And whose fault is that? Don't blame the recipients and call them moochers for getting what Congress has created and controls.

I think EVERY SINGLE GOV"T PROGRAM should go through a top to bottom review. The waste, fraud and abuse is rampant.
It isn't anyone's fault. And it is everyone's fault.

We have a caring nation, and we especially care about our seniors. And seniors are old, no fault of their own, and require much more in the way of medical goods and services, some of which is due to their faults. We the people have elected to support them through these transfers of funds and services.

I myself will soon be a proud recipient of all your largesse!

<LOL>
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:14 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,727,592 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
The blank taxpayer check called Obamacare was passed unilaterally by Democrats, and now Republicans are the bad guys when they balk at raising the debt ceiling again (and again) to cover that blank check?
the CBO says the ACA is expected to add $100 billion to the deficit over 10 years. That's not exactly a "blank check."
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:19 PM
 
7,492 posts, read 11,826,650 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Stop and think about what you just said and then maybe you can understand why people oppose ACA..

Did you get it?

How about now?

If not, here, let me summarize for you, your statement.

In order to pay for the landmark legislation, which is supposed to cover all americans and insure tens of millions of people, you need tens of millions of people to go without insurance...

Did the stupidity of the whole thing sink in yet?
What are you talking about??
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