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View Poll Results: Should all Americans have healthcare?
Yes 104 80.00%
No 26 20.00%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-06-2014, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,436 posts, read 4,857,060 times
Reputation: 2745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is the elephant in the room. How do you dole out health care when there is a limited amount available? We certainly cannot pay for everything for everyone as we'd run out of money to pay for anything.
There is plenty of money to be had, a small tax of less than ½ of 1% on Wall Street transactions can generate hundreds of billions of dollars each year in the US alone.

Why the world needs Robin | Robin Hood Tax
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,496 posts, read 26,553,374 times
Reputation: 8966
Yes.

Look what happens in the state of Tenn when there isn't a system in place to help the sick and elderly.
Bill Haslam, Tennessee Governor, Rejects Obamacare Exchange

DA: Elderly Sullivan County neglect victim dies | Kingsport Times-News

A Third world country. Legislators betray their constituents.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:33 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,772,048 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
You do know that if you are insured you are already paying for the uninsured.
I still don't buy that argument.

1. Because if everyone would be insured I would be paying less? Right? Wanna bet I won't be paying less? I certainly am not paying less with the ACA. I almost certainly won't be paying less under socialize medicine because of the way health taxes are extracted

Most people get that propaganda from articles like this: (families USA was use as the source) As close to liberal propaganda as you can get

Study: Insured Paying Higher 'Hidden Tax' For Uninsured Health Care - Kaiser Health News

Yet most people don't realize Medicare doesn't pay as well. Most physician offices have to be careful of their Medicare to private ratios. Or else you have to rely on being a "volume" dealer essentially seeing so many patients on Medicare you will have to be more efficient. Spend less time with patients just to keep up with costs (over head).
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,400,602 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
The issue is who won't want to pay for it. What's the cut off range for subsidies? What's the cut off range for exempting the "really poor".

Is it about $20k for individual like Germany? But those making $30k a year will complain they are paying too much.

And the cost savings from single payer means restricting health provider pay. It's no secret physician salaries are very low in Germany compares to the US. Will docs just work less? Sure nurse practitioners and PAs can pick up the slack. But if docs get paid less. Than the NPs and PAs will have to get paid less and it's just trickles down the health care chain. ICU nurses can routinely make 100k working mainly 3 days a week. 12 hour shifts. Plus pick up some extra "mandatory shifts" Everyone will have to take a haircut.

Providers will do less procedures. They have incentive in a fee for service system. Also less testing is done. In the USA almost every "head injury" that comes to the ER gets a CT scan because they don't want to miss a diagnosis. But there's this fear factor if you miss a head bleed. You butt will get sued. So if providers are employed by the government or hospital owned by government like our military systems and VA system. Less testing is done. Lawyers hate suing the VA and military system. It's hard to extract money from the govt.

So that's what a national health system looks like. It's fair.

I have the resources to purchase supplemental insurance. So everyone gets a basic level of care. Those who have the resources get more. Seems fair.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:39 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,491,140 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
Yes.

Look what happens in the state of Tenn when there isn't a system in place to help the sick and elderly.
Bill Haslam, Tennessee Governor, Rejects Obamacare Exchange

DA: Elderly Sullivan County neglect victim dies | Kingsport Times-News

A Third world country. Legislators betray their constituents.
So why don't the people of Tenn use the federal exchange?

Some states setup their own exchange, some states use the federal exchange, but every state has an exchange.

The only debate was about who should operate it, not whether one would exist.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:47 PM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,002,733 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post

P.S. a single payer system could enhance capitalism as it could take away an advantage that large companies have over small and start up companies that can't afford to provide healthcare as an employee benefit compensation.
It is so foolish how America talks about health care. It is not a commodity.
This country should have had a universal health care system after World War II.
No, make it the Civil War...
Hell, go all the way back to Benjamin Franklin's day. He even knew.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,804,524 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Phx Native View Post
If you want a example of how well a single payer system works, look at communist Russia, it does not work and I am not talking from the view point of someone who has read about it, but straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I had a chance to talk to a couple of Soviet pilots who defected to the West, they warned us how bad they healthcare system was in Russia and if we were not careful, we would soon be in the same boat.
I don't want the govt telling me what I can and cannot have, that is not their job and there is NOTHING in the Constitution that says you have a right to health care.
Hmmm. Weren't those defections 25-40 years ago?
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:00 AM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,772,048 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
I have the resources to purchase supplemental insurance. So everyone gets a basic level of care. Those who have the resources get more. Seems fair.
Agree.

The problem is most Americans (the 60-65% who already have access to employer insurance which essentially gives them access to "private medical practices) and the current 15% on medicare also have similar access"

What's going to happen is we flip a switch. The same people who are going to face the same restrictions (access) as Medicaid patients have. That's the sacrifice to be made.

You can't be like in the USA. For instance. My mother in law is school teacher. She literally waits to end of summer. Than she decides to call up her doc. Literally within a week she can get into gi doctor for elective colonoscopy screening. That's the USA practice system. Most will be giving oh that type of access "unless they pay for more".

Unless it's a true emergency. You aren't going to be able to wait till last minute to get an elective colonoscopy done (just because summer is over). In the newer system she will probably have to wait 4-6 weeks.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,877,650 times
Reputation: 18713
What a lot of folks never understood is that before Obamacare, everyone already had health care. If you went to an emergency room, they had to treat you, even if you had no money at all. Was it all of equal quality. No. Will it always be of equal quality. NO.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:22 AM
 
Location: On the Group W bench
5,563 posts, read 4,253,497 times
Reputation: 2127
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
What a lot of folks never understood is that before Obamacare, everyone already had health care. If you went to an emergency room, they had to treat you, even if you had no money at all. Was it all of equal quality. No. Will it always be of equal quality. NO.
LOL. And guess who pays for that? YOU! Bwahahahahahaha. Every conservative who buys health insurance pays for that, and you don't even know it.

And no, doctors and hospitals are not required to give long-term treatment, just emergency services. Patch you up and send you home. Got cancer without insurance? Make a will, you're done.
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