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Old 04-21-2014, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,026 posts, read 3,646,980 times
Reputation: 2196

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
It's a game both sides play.

A cold winter in one city is used as evidence against AGW, while an individual hurricane is used as evidence for it.

Both are just anecdotal.
That is true. Even in this thread AGW proponents whined about shrinking Arctic sea ice claiming it is creating some sort of snowball effect because of the darker ocean. This is completely preposterous considering the fact global sea ice is above average.

At the same time AGW skeptics totally ignore Arctic sea ice, and only focus on the record sea ice in the Antarctic, and thus make the unsubstantiated claim that we are headed for an ice age.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
That is true. Even in this thread AGW proponents whined about shrinking Arctic sea ice claiming it is creating some sort of snowball effect because of the darker ocean. This is completely preposterous considering the fact global sea ice is above average.

At the same time AGW skeptics totally ignore Arctic sea ice, and only focus on the record sea ice in the Antarctic, and thus make the unsubstantiated claim that we are headed for an ice age.
Nobody was whining, they were describing the albedo effect.....Albedo is a non-dimensional, unitless quantity that indicates how well a surface reflects solar energy. Thermodynamics: Albedo | National Snow and Ice Data Center

The albedo helps explain why the Arctic is warming more than the rest of the earth, particularly the Antarctic
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,026 posts, read 3,646,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Nobody was whining, they were describing the albedo effect.....Albedo is a non-dimensional, unitless quantity that indicates how well a surface reflects solar energy. Thermodynamics: Albedo | National Snow and Ice Data Center

The albedo helps explain why the Arctic is warming more than the rest of the earth, particularly the Antarctic
I know about Albedo. The misrepresentation that I'm talking about is one in which people imply that a lack of ice in the north will warm the planet while ignoring or denying the fact that total global sea ice is above average, which nullifies the albedo effect globally.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
I know about Albedo. The misrepresentation that I'm talking about is one in which people imply that a lack of ice in the north will warm the planet while ignoring or denying the fact that total global sea ice is above average, which nullifies the albedo effect globally.
Now I'm wondering where you are getting your information.....Arctic sea ice loss is three times greater than Antarctic sea ice gain, and the amount of solar energy absorbed by the Earth is increasing as a result.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,026 posts, read 3,646,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Now I'm wondering where you are getting your information.....Arctic sea ice loss is three times greater than Antarctic sea ice gain, and the amount of solar energy absorbed by the Earth is increasing as a result.
The question should be, where are you getting your information!? David Suzuki? While we await your answer, here is where I'm getting mine: ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/

April 21st sea ice summary:

Northern hemisphere = 13.78273 10^6 sq km (average = 14.45618 )
Southern hemisphere = 9.03911 10^6 sq km (average = 7.42835)
Total = 22.82184 10^6 sq km (average = 21.88453)

For those of you who are bad at math 22.82184 is larger than 21.88453, and more than 1 standard deviation larger to boot.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
Reputation: 14000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
The question should be, where are you getting your information!? David Suzuki? While we await your answer, here is where I'm getting mine: ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/

April 21st sea ice summary:

Northern hemisphere = 13.78273 10^6 sq km (average = 14.45618 )
Southern hemisphere = 9.03911 10^6 sq km (average = 7.42835)
Total = 22.82184 10^6 sq km (average = 21.88453)

For those of you who are bad at math 22.82184 is larger than 21.88453, and more than 1 standard deviation larger to boot.
I get nothing from that link......Sea ice near the Antarctic Peninsula, south of the tip of South America, has recently experienced a significant decline. The rest of Antarctica has experienced a small increase in Antarctic sea ice. http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/c...ifference.html
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,026 posts, read 3,646,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I get nothing from that link......Sea ice near the Antarctic Peninsula, south of the tip of South America, has recently experienced a significant decline. The rest of Antarctica has experienced a small increase in Antarctic sea ice. Arctic vs. Antarctic | National Snow and Ice Data Center
The link didn't work for you? You can also search around here: ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/N...th/daily/data/
ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/N...th/daily/data/

The fact remains, the current global sea ice is sitting at its 5th highest level for this date since 1978. It could very well drop in a few months since sea is varies widely from year to year, but there is no sea ice crisis as some would have you believe. On another note, there seems to be a 4 to 5 year oscillation in Antarctic sea ice, and it is set to tank within a year or two from now.

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Old 04-22-2014, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
Reputation: 14000
The extent of Arctic sea ice at its summertime low point has dropped 40 percent in the past three decades. The idea that a tiny Antarctic ice expansion makes up for this — that heat is merely shifting from the the Southern Hemisphere to the Northern and therefore global warming must not be happening — is "just nonsense," Serreze said. Record-High Antarctic Sea Ice Levels Don't Disprove Global Warming | Ice Cap Melting | LiveScience
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,026 posts, read 3,646,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The extent of Arctic sea ice at its summertime low point has dropped 40 percent in the past three decades. The idea that a tiny Antarctic ice expansion makes up for this — that heat is merely shifting from the the Southern Hemisphere to the Northern and therefore global warming must not be happening — is "just nonsense," Serreze said. Record-High Antarctic Sea Ice Levels Don't Disprove Global Warming | Ice Cap Melting | LiveScience
That is true, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm refuting the erroneous claims that global sea is below average right now.
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
Reputation: 14000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
That is true, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm refuting the erroneous claims that global sea is below average right now.
Of course global sea ice is not below average now....Who said it was, and why are you stuck on a particular date? The arctic sea ice is almost at it's winter maximum and there is almost 3 times as much sea ice in the north at maximum as there is in the south at maximum...Wait 5 months......Globally sea ice is decreasing by 0.95% per decade. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/
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