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Old 04-17-2014, 10:09 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
The executive branch has quite a bit of discretion in how laws are implemented. And elections have consequences.

If Republicans don't like what he's doing... they're free to sue or legislate otherwise. Or get their own president elected. Of course the latter two options would require that they run candidates that people will actually vote for. And in my case that means I will have to see them as constructive. Not obstructive. Or destructive.
Actually no, the executive branch has no discretion on how laws are implemented other than the ability to pardon those who break them.

Did he pardon insurance companies so they can violate his own law and not cancel policies which werent in compliance?
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:14 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Sounds like rhetoric and excuses to me.

Republicans are going to have to show me that they have an interest in solving in problems for Americans who happen to be neither billionaires nor preachers (the only constituencies the GOP takes any interest in as far as I can tell). Otherwise they'll probably never get my vote again.
Here we have it for all to see..

It doesnt matter if Obama lied to them, that the plan will fail, and that Obama himself had to delay mandates because it was going to harm more individuals.

The only thing that matters is Republicans warned of the consequences of the bill, and they were ignored, but because Obama took it upon himself to push forward with bad legislation with Democratic support, they now have a voter for life..

Promises of $2500 a year savings, based upon lies, meaningless
Screwing millions of americans with higher premiums, meaningless
Increased deductibles, meaningless
higher taxes, who cares.

it doesnt matter, Obama sounded good..
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:16 AM
 
32,019 posts, read 36,763,165 times
Reputation: 13290
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
People being dropped due to cancelation of substandard insurance plans are about 1% of the population too.

Do you consider them negligible too?
No, that's not negligible. However, the huge difference is that they could get new coverage, in many cases with premium assistance via a government subsidy.

I understand and empathize with folks whose premiums have gone up -- mine are pretty stout, too.,

But that's an entirely different animal from being totally locked out of coverage at any price.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,765,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
nothing, but failure of 1 party to do something, doesnt give the other party a blank check to make things worse..

What part of that dont you get?
What I don't 'get' is the claim that the ACA has made things worse. I've seen lots of spurious claims and wild predictions of doom... but I've seen no evidence that leads me to believe that the ACA has made the overall situation worse. It's way too early to tell. But at least the Democrats had the COURAGE to put forth an initiative (based on ideas that have been supported by major players in both parties). We've already seen plenty of problems with the rollout and I expect we'll see lots more. But these can be and (some) have been fixed.

IMO that sure beats refusing to address the problem and obstructing/sabotaging any effort to do so.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:23 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
What I don't 'get' is the claim that the ACA has made things worse. I've seen lots of spurious claims and wild predictions of doom... but I've seen no evidence that leads me to believe that the ACA has made the overall situation worse. It's way too early to tell. But at least the Democrats had the COURAGE to put forth an initiative (based on ideas that have been supported by major players in both parties). We've already seen plenty of problems with the rollout and I expect we'll see lots more. But these can be and (some) have been fixed.

IMO that sure beats refusing to address the problem and obstructing/sabotaging any effort to do so.
how do you subsidize individual A without increasing costs on others?

Care to tell me why Obama has delayed the mandate on employers? Does he know something you dont, or does he just want to deny americans all the wonderful benefits which it entails?
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,765,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Actually no, the executive branch has no discretion on how laws are implemented other than the ability to pardon those who break them.

Did he pardon insurance companies so they can violate his own law and not cancel policies which werent in compliance?
The executive doesn't have discretion?

Sure looks to me like he does. He's tweaking the implementation of the law as he reckons is necessary, and y'all haven't managed to stop him. So yeah he does in fact have that power- and that's nothing new for a president. Ever hear of an executive order? What exactly do you think that is if not discretion?
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,765,810 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
how do you subsidize individual A without increasing costs on others?

Care to tell me why Obama has delayed the mandate on employers? Does he know something you dont, or does he just want to deny americans all the wonderful benefits which it entails?
Economics isn't a zero-sum game. Republicans are the first to point this out when they want to cut education so that they can give handouts to billionaires who inherited their wealth. Doesn't seem like it should take THAT much imagination to understand how this would apply to healthcare.

But yes, there will be wealth redistribution and cost-shifting. That's true of every sector of every economy on the planet (with the possible exception of that Free Market Utopia called Somalia?). I'm OK with that. Maybe you're not... but it's gonna happen just the same.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,765,810 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
No, that's not negligible. However, the huge difference is that they could get new coverage, in many cases with premium assistance via a government subsidy.

I understand and empathize with folks whose premiums have gone up -- mine are pretty stout, too.,

But that's an entirely different animal from being totally locked out of coverage at any price.
Sorry, I should have quoted. My question was directed at the guy who dismissed your situation because it only affected 1% of the population.

Republicans sure are concerned about the 1% of the population whose substandard 'insurance' plans were canceled.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:42 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
The executive doesn't have discretion?

Sure looks to me like he does. He's tweaking the implementation of the law as he reckons is necessary, and y'all haven't managed to stop him. So yeah he does in fact have that power- and that's nothing new for a president. Ever hear of an executive order? What exactly do you think that is if not discretion?
Why would he be tweaking the law if it was so wonderful? You do realize that just because Obama said you can ignore the law, doesnt mean other branches of the government have to accept, that correct? Do you think the "Obama said" will work when you are facing an IRS agent for not complying?
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:45 AM
 
58,973 posts, read 27,267,735 times
Reputation: 14265
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
What I don't 'get' is the claim that the ACA has made things worse. I've seen lots of spurious claims and wild predictions of doom... but I've seen no evidence that leads me to believe that the ACA has made the overall situation worse. It's way too early to tell. But at least the Democrats had the COURAGE to put forth an initiative (based on ideas that have been supported by major players in both parties). We've already seen plenty of problems with the rollout and I expect we'll see lots more. But these can be and (some) have been fixed.

IMO that sure beats refusing to address the problem and obstructing/sabotaging any effort to do so.
Where do you get your "news"?
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