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Old 04-19-2014, 09:23 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 951,205 times
Reputation: 589

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
You might want to join the 21st century. I don't think it was fair for the Huns to invade eastern Europe, either. Or the Visigoths to take the Iberian Peninsula. Or the Mongols seizing the north of China. But I've moved on.

We might want to deal with what is on OUR plate right now. I cannot help what my fifth generation removed grandfathers did.
I agree, and the issue of islamic war/terrorism in the 21st might be the greatest political/social one to contend with, and far leftists running interference for that death cult are not helping, they are making it more difficult.
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:39 AM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,429 posts, read 18,548,214 times
Reputation: 22313
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
I don't have a problem with Muslims, Islam, or any other religion. Maybe if we stayed off their land and stopped killing their people, then the small hand full of radicals would stop gunning for us.
Who is "we"? It's not me. Are you part of "we"?

I'll tell you who "we" is... it's the government that you worship.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
then the small hand full of radicals would stop gunning for us.
If you understood religious fanaticism, as I'm sure you claim to do with Christians, you'd know better than to make this claim.
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:58 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,777,120 times
Reputation: 1325
No, I am showing how poorly you understand the Constitution. Yes, anyone has the right to petition their representative and to exercise their freedom of speech, even for unconstitutional ideas. However if lawmakers bow to the will of the masses and try to implement something unconstitutional, like endorsing a religion or placing undue restrictions on speech, the courts have a duty to slap it down. It is not against the law to advocate taking away religious freedom, and for that you should be thankful, since that is precisely what you are doing. However no one is going to lock you up for it, no one will shoot you, or deport you for it.

A private person or group of persons cannot stop someone's free speech legally, because that requires force, and the government has a monopoly on legal coercion.The only party that can curtail free speech is the government. A group can agitate for change to the law to deny some other group their constitutional rights, we clearly see that with Prop 8, DOMA, and similar laws. It is not unconstitutional for individuals and groups to push for change. The only entity for whom constitutionality matters is the government. It would be unconstitutional if the government were to act on that pressure, just as it appears to be regarding Prop 8 and other discriminatory laws. In the same way, our checks and balances should counteract laws that discriminate based on or establish in law any particular religion.

To keep it short, citizens have every right to agitate for any change, the government does not always have the right to do what the citizens want.

-NoCapo

Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-19-2014 at 12:00 PM.. Reason: Removed deleted quote
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:10 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,777,120 times
Reputation: 1325
It isn't the fault of the people expressing opinions. They have the right to do it. It is the fault of weak politicians who kowtow to pressure, knowing that they are just handing the mess off to the courts. Everyone is entitled to have their view and express it. Politicians who knowing allow unconstitutional garbage through, relying on the courts to rule against it are simply useless, and should be voted out post haste. Unfortunately we the voters often over look little flaws, like not paying attention to the Constitution.

That's funny, I would argue that historical, and to a large extent modern, Christianity falls afoul of what you wrote. The way we deal with other religions is we require that they adhere to our laws, we allow the freedom to worship, and we leave it alone. It has worked out pretty well for Christianity, I don't see why it cannot work for Islam.

Make no mistake, I do not believe religious law should be the basis for any of our secular government. I believe that violence toward women and homosexuals should be punished quickly and consistently. But to arbitrarily decide that one religion is now legally anathema is clearly unconstitutional. Every individual has the right to choose what, if any God to worship, and how best to do it, within our legal system. If you don't like it, repeal the first amendment, but I will fight you all the way, because I understand that the first amendment protects all of us.

Bottom line: Punish those who commit crimes, leave law abiding citizens alone. Period, end of discussion.

-NoCapo

Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-19-2014 at 11:52 AM.. Reason: Deleted quotes removed
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:25 AM
 
5,077 posts, read 2,285,899 times
Reputation: 3327
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
It isn't the fault of the people expressing opinions. They have the right to do it. It is the fault of weak politicians who kowtow to pressure, knowing that they are just handing the mess off to the courts. Everyone is entitled to have their view and express it. Politicians who knowing allow unconstitutional garbage through, relying on the courts to rule against it are simply useless, and should be voted out post haste. Unfortunately we the voters often over look little flaws, like not paying attention to the Constitution.


That's funny, I would argue that historical, and to a large extent modern, Christianity falls afoul of what you wrote. The way we deal with other religions is we require that they adhere to our laws, we allow the freedom to worship, and we leave it alone. It has worked out pretty well for Christianity, I don't see why it cannot work for Islam.

Make no mistake, I do not believe religious law should be the basis for any of our secular government. I believe that violence toward women and homosexuals should be punished quickly and consistently. But to arbitrarily decide that one religion is now legally anathema is clearly unconstitutional. Every individual has the right to choose what, if any God to worship, and how best to do it, within our legal system. If you don't like it, repeal the first amendment, but I will fight you all the way, because I understand that the first amendment protects all of us.

Bottom line: Punish those who commit crimes, leave law abiding citizens alone. Period, end of discussion.

-NoCapo
"It isn't the fault of people expressing opinions?" Oh, okay. People aren't to be faulted for the opinions they hold? Thanks for clearing that up.
You don't see me defending Christianity, do you, so why bring it up? I don't see any "progressives" defending Chrisitianity either though, but they do defend Islam tooth and nail, for some unfathomable reason.
Nevertheless, if you can't see the difference between Christianity and Islam, I don't know what I can tell you. Look at that article I posted yesterday. How about this little tidbit: "Last week, Saudi courts sentenced an Australian Muslim to be flogged 500 times and sent to jail for "insulting" Muhammad." Lovely. Can you link me to a story where Christians flogged someone 500 times for insulting Jesus? And this is what you're defending. Take a bow.
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Old 04-19-2014, 12:07 PM
 
4,651 posts, read 4,577,656 times
Reputation: 1444
[quote=jambo101;34430937]
Quote:

I wonder if the indigenous native American Indians had similar misgivings about the migration of the white man to their land..
A good point !!
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Old 04-19-2014, 12:20 PM
 
4,651 posts, read 4,577,656 times
Reputation: 1444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
In fact, looking at Freedom House's Freedom in the World survey for 2014, it looks like many of the least free countries aren't Muslim: Cuba, Russia, Belarus, North Korea, China, Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, South Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Central African Republic, Cameroon, Congo, DR Congo, Gabon, Swaziland, and Zimbabwe.
Sorry,i don't buy western propaganda too,we need to know who is behind the "Freedom House" ?

How biaised is this survey ? What are the criteria they use to issue such a survey ?

Many western countries are not free as they claim.

Every country has it's own definition of freedom according to their history,tradition,religion,culture and constitution.

What is free in the US may not be regarded as free in France and vice versa.

So there is no legal or definitive definition of "freedom" accepted and respected by all.

This is a "legal" tool to discriminate and label poor and third world countries as "backwards" and "uncivilized"
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,933,225 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonR View Post
Leave the fake religion of islam, and burn every koran you can find.
Well, Harrier isn't really a Muslim.

While Harrier has no problem acknowledging that there is no God but Allah(since there is only one God and thus it shouldn't matter what God is called) he does have somewhat of an issue with having to assert that Muhammed was his prophet.

Harrier sometimes describes himself as a Muslim Jew for Christ, and one could also call him a Protestant Catholic.

Harrier is very interested in how the Tlingit in Alaska have combined their own animist spirituality with Russian Orthodox practices to create a uniquely Tlingit form of Christianity.

The following is a good book on the subject:

http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=E0-Aj0dOSuUC

Harrier own a copy of the Qur'an, which is titled the Holy Qur'an.

A member of Harrier's family once took a knife and stabbed a couple of pages so that the name would be accurate(holey).
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: So Cal
51,964 posts, read 52,401,739 times
Reputation: 52464
I think the OP is a little on the alarmist side.

I'm not actively worried about Muslims in America and I think that the average every day Muslim isn't out trying to take over the world. That being said, some of the tenets of Islam are a little concerning... yeah yeah, I know... you could cherry pick Christianity as well and find things there that are concerning as well..... it's just Crusades aside, Christians haven't been flying planes into buildings as of late......
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:51 PM
 
4,651 posts, read 4,577,656 times
Reputation: 1444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
I think the OP is a little on the alarmist side.

I'm not actively worried about Muslims in America and I think that the average every day Muslim isn't out trying to take over the world. That being said, some of the tenets of Islam are a little concerning... yeah yeah, I know... you could cherry pick Christianity as well and find things there that are concerning as well..... it's just Crusades aside, Christians haven't been flying planes into buildings as of late......
Yes they did,Christians have already flown planes into buildings in 2010 against IRS building in Austin,Texas

Remember When Andrew Joseph Stack Flew a Plane Into a Texas IRS Building? - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic
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