The myth of Blacks looking down on education (crimes, money, state)

[aplcr0331]

Originally Posted by EddieB.Good

Before anyone even clicks the link, do the reports control for living in cities/suburbs, or private/public schools?

Yes, the third study also controls for differences in assimilation between recent black immigrants and african americans. They are pretty interesting studies, not necessarily as bad as people may think. Most educational trends for blacks are trending up, graduation rates, test scores, college attendance, etc.

Here's another interesting study put out by the National Urban League, called the State of Black America. You can read the book online as well, here.

[DoD Guy]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

"Talking white", "too good for the hood", etc. And other factoids oft repeated by those typically middle-aged and old whites (and arrogant blacks) who have little to no actual experience with young blacks...outside of the evening news, of course. This is the most ridiculous and overblown stereotype about blacks that I wish would just die already.

Coming from this community myself, I can say with absolute certainty that the majority of inner-city blacks do indeed place a value on education. For those who aren't able to get one for themselves, they still congratulate their peers who are able to make it so far. If I had a nickel for every time another young black man or woman told me they had plans to pursue a degree or certificate, I'd have enough money to fund your child's college education.

At the grade school level, you do have teasing aimed at the "nerds" or "good students" and higher value placed on being cool and popular, but, the last time I checked, this was not exclusive to black children.

Enough already.

Yeah, just ask Bill Cosby.
He told them like it was, gave the right advice, and now he's hated.

[ChestRockwell]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

In a community that is already behind the power curve, peer anti-intellectualism in school is a sufficient roadblock (not just in grade school--it extends through high school).

It is incredibly freaking tough for a young black male to be born into the inner city and get out with a clean record to make something worthwhile of himself.

It's not just a matter of "stay out of trouble" because trouble comes looking for him when he's too young even to recognize it. It comes from street gangs that will come looking for him to enforce their control of the streets. It comes from school administrators who automatically presume any negative behavior requires handcuffing and a police arrest (even in elementary school). It comes from overzealous police who think "you looked back at us when we passed you" requires a police arrest.

Those who do come out clean are not "average" by any means. The "average" will come out with strikes against him that he had no honest chance of avoiding, and dealing with anti-intellectual peer pressure is much more of a hurdle for him--combined with everything else--than the anti-intellectualism that the white kid at "Morningside Heights Junior High" faces.

Parenting can fix that.

[FKD19124]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

No, but it is pretty difficult to notice something that doesn't exist. In all fairness, though, maybe this is a phenomenon unique to Strawberry Mansion. Philadelphia isn't exactly Houston or Atlanta.

And again how do you know it doesn't exist? Just because you do not witness it doesn't mean its not true.

[Ralph_Kirk]

It's not just a matter of "stay out of trouble" because trouble comes looking for him when he's too young even to recognize it. It comes from street gangs that will come looking for him to enforce their control of the streets. It comes from school administrators who automatically presume any negative behavior requires handcuffing and a police arrest (even in elementary school). It comes from overzealous police who think "you looked back at us when we passed you" requires a police arrest.

Originally Posted by ChestRockwell

Parenting can fix that.

You have some suggestions for fixing this? Besides moving to Morningside Heights?

Your son gets punched by an anti-intellectual bully in school, and the school has both of them handcuffed, arrested, and taken to jail because of the school's "No Tolerance" policy. Your son now has a juvenile record. How does your parenting prevent that?

Your son gets arrested because he "looked back at us when we passed you" or some other asinine "reason of the moment"--how does your parenting fix that?

[ChestRockwell]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

You have some suggestions for fixing this? Besides moving to Morningside Heights?

Your son gets punched by an anti-intellectual bully in school, and the school has both of them handcuffed, arrested, and taken to jail because of the school's "No Tolerance" policy. Your son now has a juvenile record. How does your parenting prevent that?

Your son gets arrested because he "looked back at us when we passed you" or some other asinine "reason of the moment"--how does your parenting fix that?

I've never, ever heard of such a thing happening, particularly the first scenario, even in an isolated incident let alone any significant amount of frequency.

Sounds to me like you are using a few improbable situations to absolve parents who have no reservations about turning fingers every which way but inward.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by ChestRockwell

I've never, ever heard of such a thing happening, particularly the first scenario, even in an isolated incident let alone any significant amount of frequency.

Sounds to me like you are using a few improbable situations to absolve parents who have no reservations about turning fingers every which way but inward.

Happened to my nephew.

[Darkknight01]

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

I will start out with the fact that I am a parent who believes that parental education prior to entering kindergarten or pre-k is one of the primary factors of how a child achieves in school. Also that this "parental education" is not necessarily based upon academics as children can easily grasp those sorts of academic concepts. I am speaking moreso on a culture of exploring at home via books and other experiences, cooking with the family, going to parks and zoos etc.

That said, I wanted to speak to your numbered list above and was genuinely interested in the following:

1. Why didn't your school REQUIRE (added for emphasis not yelling at you) tutoring. I live in metro Atlanta and we have some very good charter schools, most notably the KIPP schools along with Drew Charter School and they, along with my son's charter school which is also a high performer, REQUIRE (for emphasis) tutoring for all students who are not on level. They will go so far as to require Saturday school for these students to ensure they are learning material. I have a friend whose son transferred into one of the schools mentioned above this school year from a suburban district that is rated better than Atlanta Public Schools and her son has had to attend Saturday school all year due to being behind academically. He is finally caught up but will continue Saturday school through the end of the year just because he likes going (can you believe that !! He is a middle school aged child and made up 3 grade levels in one year via this program).

On this note, wanted to mention that I don't blame teachers for not requiring needed tutoring. I blame the administration. If leadership was serious about student achievement, they would require all students to be tutored if they fell beneath a specific percentage. At my son's school no child is allowed to fail. "Failure" is defined as less than 80% on an exam. If they "fail" an exam, they must attend after school tutoring and re-do that entire lesson and then score above an 80% on a re-exam. This ensures that children are learning and is something that is proven to work, yet it is not done on a large scale in majority minority urban districts.

2. As stated, I agree that the kids with parents who care about their kids education will do better, but I beg to differ with the "involved" part. I doubt those "involved" parents do much with their kids. I have a middle school aged son and I rarely do anything really with him as I expect him to do well at school and not have to attend after school tutoring. Other than expecting the best of him, I do nothing, similar to what you are describing for those "African American students" and their families. They have the expectation that their kids are smart. Contrary to what you may believe, many poor, ignorant black people don't think that their kids are capable of anything and that is the behavior issues you see as an educator, parents who are apathetic who don't care about their kids. If more teachers did what our successful charter schools do and care about those kids, especially the younger kids and I would go so far as to include middle and high school students, especially high schoolers as they are past all the troubling hormonal issues that youth face and are more apt to respond in kind to a caring teacher who wants the best for them and truly means it.



LOL, this happened to me too with a good friend but it was just a friendly competition. We never had anything against our Asian students at my school. I actually was very good friends with them, one of my friends from high school who is Asian actually married into my family. We didn't have any animosity nor any sort of race based bullying.



Those links are actually from a VERY extensive report done by the NCES that examines all types of black students in comparison to whites, native Americans, Hispanics, and Asians living in similar and same circumstances. The firs link is especially informative. I have read it in its entirety before.

1. Actually, they did. They started to send out letters and make phone calls. However, like I said before, a lot of these so called "good parents" either don't update their info, move, or just don't want to be bothered. So you get a hold of who you can and tell them they have to come. We had counselors talking to kids, assistant principals, you name it. Some kids did come, others did not. We also did the saturday thing too. It was only required for tested subjects though, so that means my field was not included.

2. That is simply not true. I told my students time and time again that I wanted them to succeed as well as some other teachers that I know. Why is it a teacher's responsibility to pick up the pieces and do what a parent didn't? It's really not. They are paid to teach, not to be a second parent. Besides being encouraging, motivating students, telling them that it was possible to succeed and showing others that they could do it, I honestly don't know what else can be done. The parents dropped the ball and it should not be up to teachers to pick it up and run with it. You do the best with what you have and thats really all you can do. Maybe more tutoring needs to be implemented in the younger grades as I am not familiar with those, but honestly I don't see what more schools can do besides what they are already doing now or at least at the school that I was at.

[ChestRockwell]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

Happened to my nephew.

That's the exception and not the rule. If it was some plague, it'd be plenty sensationalized by the media outlets.

This is very curious to me. If your nephew was bullied and punched in the face....what was he charged with that he now has a juvenile record? I must say that given the same circumstances, I'd tell my sons to do whatever they had to do in order to defend their space, and I do. And I would even in the face of a potential juvenile record.

The "no tolerance" message your nephew had to learn is much more alarming to me than any anti-intellectual peer pressure.

[Californian34]

Originally Posted by FKD19124

You could not be more wrong. As the husband of an eductor who teaches "in the hood" of Strawberry mansion at a grade school, she sees this stuff all the time. The black children do act like this. My wife experiences this all the time. You get black kids who think that if you are too smart that you are "acting white".
You can deny this all you want. And yes the black community does not value education as it should.
I do not know of any other group of people that has millions of dollars poured into it for all sorts of programs, and very few take advantage of it. And when they do , they get the "uncle Tom" treatment.

1. so you're going to tell a black person (Nairobi) that you know more about being black than he does? typical.

2. to the red outlined part. many native American communities have similar issues and much money is spent on trying to help them as well. quick! what do these two groups have in common.