Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-23-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,371,777 times
Reputation: 7990

Advertisements

Voters rejecting new money for transit; bus cuts coming | Local News | The Seattle Times

Yesterday in King county, WA (Seattle area) we voted on a proposal called 'Prop 1' to raise car license tab fees by $60/yr, in order to fund public transit. Supporters of the proposal raised $654,922. Opponents raised only $7700, which translates to about an 85-1 advantage for supporters. This is typical. In WA there are ballot measures every year where voters are asked to vote on laws of all kinds, including tax increases.

Agree or disagree with the concept of direct democracy, this phenomenon provides a useful index of just how rigged the game is. 85-1 is typical, perhaps even below the norm. In 1997, Paul Allen pushed a statewide ballot measure to build a tax-funded football stadium after he bought the Seattle Seahawks. He spent over $5 million on the campaign. Opponents spent roughly zero. It passed 51-48.

It goes to what public choice economists call 'concentrated benefits/diffuse costs.' Supporters of a measure like Prop 1 know that they will benefit immensely from the revenue, so they organize, raise money and work hard to get it passed. Opponents might be equally passionate, but there is not as much at stake for them. $60/yr? You can't blow your nose with $60/yr.

I know it's sacrilege, but democracy is a rigged game. It will always produce higher taxes, bigger government, and less freedom. And yeah I know, Prop 1 is going down in flames, but that is really beside the point. It does not change the fact that proponents had an 85-1 edge, and more often than not, an 85-1 edge wins.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-23-2014, 08:01 PM
 
542 posts, read 692,491 times
Reputation: 756
Perhaps if there were more transparency in who is funding how much in each campaign things would be different (if voters could be made to care). I'd think that looking to see who really benefits would be a clue as to whether it's a good tax increase/law or whatnot.

I'd also love for governments to post exactly how much they spend and on what, in very clear and specific terms, for all departments. I used to work for a library, and I know people would probably be shocked at what gets wasted.

Several years ago I was part of something of a grass-roots efforts to stop something from happening in our local community. The proponents of the state proposition had millions (possibly billions) to spend on advertising. It's hard to compete with that, and depressing to know that their money was greasing politics, and since being involved with the issue, I also knew that all their TV ads were lies. (They big money bad guys won).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2014, 08:04 PM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,550,525 times
Reputation: 6392
Quote:
Supporters of the proposal raised $654,922. Opponents raised only $7700
Your headline says the measure didn't pass, so doesn't it illustrate that money didn't help?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2014, 08:12 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,388,318 times
Reputation: 17261
Money helps, but It has limits. At a certain point it wont matter how much money you throw at something as long as those that oppose it throw in some pittance, you will lose. That being said, money makes ALL the difference in most contests. a 45-55 loss can turn into a 60-40 win with enough money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2014, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,371,777 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Your headline says the measure didn't pass, so doesn't it illustrate that money didn't help?
This one went down to defeat, but when you have an 85-1 advantage, 8.5 times out of ten you will win. A stopped clock wins twice a day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2014, 06:24 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,409,783 times
Reputation: 4025
Direct democracy doesn't work. It is nothing but tyranny of the masses.

The minority (low-income, public transportation riders) get screwed. That is why America is not a direct democracy. The Founding Fathers understood that (they got one thing right!).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2014, 06:27 PM
 
2,687 posts, read 2,186,891 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
This one went down to defeat, but when you have an 85-1 advantage, 8.5 times out of ten you will win. A stopped clock wins twice a day.
So are you saying to support campaign finance limits of some kind?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:21 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top