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Old 04-25-2014, 09:24 AM
 
25,786 posts, read 16,422,799 times
Reputation: 15983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
W.T.F.


That's your thought process? Really?


Let's assume you are right. We will assume ONLY for the sake of argument, because it is NOT a "FACT" that some people are gay because of abuse and neglect as children. It's not. But let's assume you're correct to analyze your thought process:


A person becomes some way because of trauma, and your compassionate conservatism tells you that you should prevent them from being happy and marrying because that would be a "continuance of that abuse"?



Seriously?
I'm sorry facts and science upset you. There are a significant number of "Gay" people out there who are afflicted with childhood abuse.

 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,233,866 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Because your belief is used to OPPRESS homosexuals and STRIP THEM OF THEIR RIGHTS as free citizens.


If all you did was "believe" and not take the next step to USE THAT BELIEF AGAINST OTHERS, there would be no conflict.


I love bacon and pork chops. Jews and Muslims think it's against God. However, they do not try to make it illegal for me to eat bacon because THEIR god and holy book says it's forbidden.


Why is it hard for Christians to take a similar stance? Why can Christians support OTHER things being legal in this country that also go against the Bible? For example, Christians support divorce being legal. They also don't make nearly as big a fuss over the morality of divorce, all call divorcees all sorts of names. Similarly, most Christians claim they support the freedom and right to worship other Gods. Both are against the Bible. Especially the latter.
We are not called to believe and keep the Gospel of Christ to ourselves. "The Great Commission" is an instruction to believers to spread the "Good News" (the Gospel).

The Bible, among other things, teaches us right from wrong. It teaches us what is moral and what is immoral. Homosexuality is wrong because it is immoral.

We do not use scripture to "oppress" homosexuals, or strip them of any rights. They do not have a "right" to marry. Marriage is not a "civil right." One does not have a "right" to marry a sister or brother, or first cousin.

Why do homosexuals use their beliefs against the rest of us, as a hammer, to make us submit to their wishes?

We do not use our beliefs against others, but against sin. Homosexuality is sin. It is a practice. A learned behavior.

Pork was not forbidden, but the Jews taught that it was. That was their tradition. Jesus said it was permitted. But, I think you are trying to obfuscate the issue. We aren't talking about dietary laws here. We are talking about blatant immorality. What the Bible says is "detestable" to God. And Christians shouldn't accept it.

And, again, marriage is more than simply a "tradition" that can easily be discarded. It is a God ordained rite. Marriage will forever be what God says it is, not what you say it is.

As for the "freedom to worship other gods," Christians are not called, nor do they believe God has instructed us [and he certainly has not] to "force" Christianity on unbelievers, as the Muslims attempt to force their religion on the World. We are simply to spread the Gospel. It is God who will call one to believe.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Florida
11,669 posts, read 17,878,122 times
Reputation: 8239
I really can't believe this is even an issue being debated in the United States in the 21st century.

There is NO valid argument to be against gay marriage with respect to public policy. It is unknown as to why gay people are gay. I don't understand why on earth conservatives need scientific proof that people are born gay. Since WHEN do they believe in science??? They sure don't want to believe in science when it comes to matters of climate change, evolution and the like.

If scientific proof is necessary to justify why someone's sexual orientation is the way it is, that's sad. In other words, you seriously expect gay people to be denied the right to marry until it's PROVEN scientifically? What if it's never going to be proven scientifically? It's almost like another reason to hold back gay marriage from ever happening. Like an "ah ha....homosexuality can't be scientifically proven...gotcha!" reason.

I happily abandoned religion and the Republican party two years ago and haven't looked back. They are truly stupid.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,063,511 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
First, you assume that homosexuals are "born" as homosexuals. There has never, ever, been any proof of that. Ever.

It is not bigotry to support marriage as being a sacred bond between a man and a woman, as ordained by God. This is becaue marriage is not a "civil right" that can be conferred on all citizens; it is an exclusive right (and rite) of those of the opposite sex. The homosexuals have sought to define it as a civil right, in order to fool people into acceptance, and claim "bigotry" is the motivation of all those who won't go along.

Unfortunately, this effort has been successful, as most people are very gullible, and the homosexuals, in order to aid this effort, have in tandem with their "civil right" campaign, run a campaign to discredit and impugn Christianity and Christian teaching. The claim is that religion is backward thinking, and that "progressives" have moved beyond such archaic traditions and beliefs. Thus homosexuals have been able to capitalize on the "Progressive Movement" to further their agenda, and make homosexuality appear "normal" and even "mainstream." It is neither.

What are "all forms of marriage in the Bible," to which you refer? There is only one "form" of marriage in the Bible that was acceptable to God. One man, and one woman. "The two shall become one flesh." This seems pretty clear. Two means two.

Nice try, dude. You lose.
You do know what a "civil marriage" is right? It has nothing to do with your God. Also if you believe people aren't born homosexual, then you have to also believe people aren't born heterosexual.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:36 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,304,802 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
First, you assume that homosexuals are "born" as homosexuals. There has never, ever, been any proof of that. Ever.

It is not bigotry to support marriage as being a sacred bond between a man and a woman, as ordained by God. This is becaue marriage is not a "civil right" that can be conferred on all citizens; it is an exclusive right (and rite) of those of the opposite sex. The homosexuals have sought to define it as a civil right, in order to fool people into acceptance, and claim "bigotry" is the motivation of all those who won't go along.

Unfortunately, this effort has been successful, as most people are very gullible, and the homosexuals, in order to aid this effort, have in tandem with their "civil right" campaign, run a campaign to discredit and impugn Christianity and Christian teaching. The claim is that religion is backward thinking, and that "progressives" have moved beyond such archaic traditions and beliefs. Thus homosexuals have been able to capitalize on the "Progressive Movement" to further their agenda, and make homosexuality appear "normal" and even "mainstream." It is neither.

What are "all forms of marriage in the Bible," to which you refer? There is only one "form" of marriage in the Bible that was acceptable to God. One man, and one woman. "The two shall become one flesh." This seems pretty clear. Two means two.

Nice try, dude. You lose.
Heh, no, YOU lose.

It doesn't matter whether gays were born that way or not. Any law that prohibits gays from marrying based on a RELIGION is unconstitutional and violates the 1st Amendment. No congress, including state congresses, are allowed to pass laws which establishes a religion. By codifying a ban on gay marriage, those states have established religious law - and that is a BIG no-no.

I'm really getting fed up with hearing about what the Bible says about gay marriage. Who gives a crap? Not all of us are Christians and I'll be damned if I'm going to be FORCED into adhering to the Bible just because a small, loud, and vocal conservative Christian minority with deep pockets says I do. Theocratic fascism is still fascism; our country was not founded on fascism.

Unless you have a really really really good secular argument against gay marriage, then banning gay marriage means you're being a cherry-picking fascist.

You do understand, I hope, that just two verses before the Bible condemns homosexuality, another verse condemns adultery. My question to all of the theocratic fascists and bigots out there is - why isn't there a massive push by Christians to prevent adulterers from re-marrying? In fact, Christians say absolutely NOTHING about allowing wife-beaters and spouse-murderers to marry and remarry.

Apparently the ONLY thing that matters to these people is whether or not the marriage is between a man and a woman. Yeah, this just gives you an idea of how twisted Christianity has become, where a person who bashes his girlfriend every night, even if he gets arrested for it, still has the right to marry that girl. Hell yeah, you could be John Wayne Gacy or Jeffery Dahlmer and you can get married behind bars! No amount of violence and sexual depravity is off the table JUST ... so long as the depravity and violence happens between a man and a woman.

It's only when two people of the SAME sex want a peaceful, loving marriage when the conservative Christians start roiling like a stormy sea. All of the sudden, they whip out their Bibles, blow the dust off them, and point to Old Testament verses to ban gay marriage.

"See? See? Right here! God condemns it! Hahaha, neener neener!"

So what? God condemns all kinds of people in those old Bronze Age verses: Witches, fortune tellers, rebellious kids, adulterers, people who work on the Sabbath, drunkards, fornicaters, prostitutes, liars, non-virgin brides, etc. etc.

And not ONE of them are banned from getting married. Not a one. Which means all of the irrational Christian bigots got together, surgically plucked these very specific anti-gay verses from the Bible, and have tried to use them as justification for being overt bigots, hypocrites, cherry pickers, and in some cases, hate-mongers. In my opinion, it isn't even about religion, it's about using religion as a weapon to ban something they just didn't like. Gays are icky and are crawling with cooties so they have to be marginalized, discriminated against, and turned into social pariahs. That's why this issue persists. Note how the biggest and loudest bigots are almost always male, and they focus an inordinate amount of time talking about the nature of gay sex. Ever wonder why that is? Because I think everyone knows the answer - and knowing that answer gives you the reason why there is such a push to ban gay marriage. Religion has almost nothing at all to do with it.

And after all of that, your Bible cannot be used as a reason to pass civil law. Period. Yet whenever this debate comes up, the anti-gay folks can't argue their side without referring to gods, holy books, and ancient Bronze Age superstitions supposedly inspired by a desert tribal god who wrote rules for a completely different group of people.

If you can't argue against gay marriage without falling back on your Bible, then don't even bother to post. Anyone with a brain can simply dismiss your argument straightaway by declaring it unconstitutional and then moving on.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,063,511 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Why? Who decided that it was okay for two men or two women to "marry?" Being against debauchery is not bigoted.

Was Jesus a bigot?
Jesus is a fictional character, is Santa is a bigot?

I believe our Constitution and society we have is what decides who can marru, and now it looks like same sex marriage is becoming a legal right in our country.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:42 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,233,866 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlerain View Post
If it is possible for an imaginary deity to be a bigot, then yes, he was a bigot.
Imaginary only to you.

What other historical figures are "imaginary," to you? I might also ask, do you deny the "Holocaust?" Was Hitler a historical figure, or imaginary?

At what time and place does your version of history begin? Do you have a list of people you consider "real" and ones you consider "imaginary?"
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,233,866 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Wrong. Nice try though.
Why is that wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Sure, why not? The way people like you portray God, he's already a sniveling, bipolar, jealous busy body prone to fitful rages, murderous inclinations and overly obsessed with rule making and sexual purity.... so if we're ascribing human characteristics to god, being a bigot is probably the least of his flaws.
I don't "portray" God any way other than how He has portrayed Himself. And that is not as you have described Him above.

One day, you will meet him face to face. Then what will you say?
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:47 AM
 
17,290 posts, read 29,335,241 times
Reputation: 8691
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
I'm sorry facts and science upset you. There are a significant number of "Gay" people out there who are afflicted with childhood abuse.



Your point? There's also a great number of straight people who were afflicted with childhood abuse.


Is there a correlation between sexual abuse and being straight?



BTW: Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident.

"...no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual."

LGBT-Sexual Orientation | psychiatry.org


In a 30-year longitudinal study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, although the authors found that men with histories of childhood sexual abuse were more likely to report ever having had same-sex sexual partners, they did not find any "significant relationships between childhood physical abuse or neglect and same-sex sexual orientation in adulthood;" neither men nor women with histories of childhood physical abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect reported more same-sex sexual partners in the previous year or same-sex romantic cohabitation compared to men and women without such histories.

From: Wilson, H. W.; Widom, C. S. (2009). "Does Physical Abuse, Sexual Abuse, or Neglect in Childhood Increase the Likelihood of Same-sex Sexual Relationships and Cohabitation? A Prospective 30-year Follow-up". Archives of Sexual Behavior 39 (1): 63–74
 
Old 04-25-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,619 posts, read 26,282,218 times
Reputation: 12634
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
First, you assume that homosexuals are "born" as homosexuals. There has never, ever, been any proof of that. Ever.

It is not bigotry to support marriage as being a sacred bond between a man and a woman, as ordained by God. This is becaue marriage is not a "civil right" that can be conferred on all citizens; it is an exclusive right (and rite) of those of the opposite sex. The homosexuals have sought to define it as a civil right, in order to fool people into acceptance, and claim "bigotry" is the motivation of all those who won't go along.

Unfortunately, this effort has been successful, as most people are very gullible, and the homosexuals, in order to aid this effort, have in tandem with their "civil right" campaign, run a campaign to discredit and impugn Christianity and Christian teaching. The claim is that religion is backward thinking, and that "progressives" have moved beyond such archaic traditions and beliefs. Thus homosexuals have been able to capitalize on the "Progressive Movement" to further their agenda, and make homosexuality appear "normal" and even "mainstream." It is neither.

What are "all forms of marriage in the Bible," to which you refer? There is only one "form" of marriage in the Bible that was acceptable to God. One man, and one woman. "The two shall become one flesh." This seems pretty clear. Two means two.

Nice try, dude. You lose.




Check out the timing!


April 22

Supreme Court allows states to ban affirmative action


April 22

Freedom to Marry, Freedom to Dissent: Why We Must Have Both | RealClearPolitics



Now that the Supreme Court has set the precedent for upholding state DOMAs, the gay mafia is generously offering those with opposing views permission to disagree.

Does it get any creepier?
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