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Not if you have to buy something to get it. And only you could imagine that a discussion of the cost of ID on a voter ID thread is not adhering to the discussion.
Quote:
Amendment XXIV
Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
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Originally Posted by jmqueen
The Constitution is absurd?
but a license or identification fee is not a tax
A tax takes a cut of some other transaction for the purposes of raising revenue that's not connected to the activity being taxed. A fee, on the other hand, is a charge connected to the actual direct governmental cost of the activity. For example, the sales tax doesn't just recoup the city's direct expenses that result from having sales take place. Revenue from the property tax funds a variety of programs, not just services to property owners. But if property owners paid a direct charge that went to trash collection from their property, we could call that a fee.
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“A tax has the primary purpose of raising revenue,†said Joseph Henchman, Tax Foundation Vice President of Legal Projects, and author of the exhaustive study. “By contrast, a fee recoups the cost of providing a service from a beneficiary.â€
sorry but an id fee is perfectly constitutional and has zero to due with a poll tax
That works for me. But so far I don't know of any states that have offered that.
How did they determine citizenry up until now? Since there have been illegals here for decades, and you dear old Republicans didn't care before, until it became apparent that you could no longer actually win elections on your own merits ...
but what you are not getting is that its not just about legal/illegal citizen status.....
this whole issue is about you showing WHO you are, and WHERE you reside.....especially the residency since we are a representitive republic
do you think Nancy Pelosi who represents San Fran would want a person from Oakland voting in her district??? especaiily if he/she is voting against her???
that's the whole issue with the college votes and colleg id's too..
a COLLEGE ID is a valid ID of WHOM your are...but NOT a valid id of RESIDENCY, but YOUR state CCP does show your RESIDENCY, and your photo
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example...minnisota
Part 2. Classification as State Residents. Students who meet one or more of the following conditions on the date they apply for admission to a state college or university shall be classified as residents of Minnesota.
A. Students who resided in the state for at least one calendar year immediately prior to applying for admission, or dependent students who have a parent or legal guardian residing in Minnesota on the date the students apply.
B. Minnesota residents who can demonstrate that they were temporarily absent from the state without establishing residency elsewhere.
C. Persons who moved to the state for employment purposes and, before moving and before applying for admission to a public postsecondary institution, accepted a full-time job in the state, or students who are spouses or dependents of such persons.
Minnesota State Statutes 135A.031, subd. 2
Procedure 2.2.1 - State Residency
so unless you LIVED there for ONE year PRIOR to going to school, or moved there for EMPLOYMENT prior to attending school...you were NOT a resident in the eyes of the state
so OK, you are a NEW YORKER going to MN. for school...you have a MN college ID.....you are NOT a resident of MN...your VOTING DISTRICT is still in your county in NEW YORK
if you attended college in MN..but you were an NY resident until you OFFICIALLY MOVE..that is why MOST states require you to get a new license within 30-90 days of you moving there....MN REQUIRES you to bring in your other state license and take a written and vision test within 90 days of you MOVING to the state...NC is that way too......so a NY id (or license) was ILLEGAL if you WANT to identify yourself as a MN resident...to vote in the MN elections (even the national elections)...but MN doesnt qualify you (as a student) to be a resident....
That works for me. But so far I don't know of any states that have offered that.
How did they determine citizenry up until now? Since there have been illegals here for decades, and you dear old Republicans didn't care before, until it became apparent that you could no longer actually win elections on your own merits ...
What do you mean by this? Voter fraud is not something either side should accept or be ambivalent about. If someone is in this country illegally, they have no business voting in our elections, regardless of who they might typically support.
Frankly I think most people assumed there were checks and a means of determining better who was entitled to vote, and who was not. Then in the Bush vs. Gore election many were surprised to find out just how limited our ability to even count the votes correctly was, much less determine if those who voted had a right to do so.
While I firmly believe states should have the right to set up ballots and election methods, when it comes to nationally elected representatives, a federal method with uniformity among the states should be implemented. That would include the insistence that picture ID be used to confirm the name on the voter roll, is the actual person standing before them to vote.
Additionally the penalty for voter fraud should be very stiff to help deter those who would want to cheat and subvert our system of government.
Those on your side of this discussion say that because it costs someone money to have an ID which most everyone needs to function in our society, it constitutes a tax because it forces someone without financial means to not be able to vote.
My analogy is of the same principle in that most people would agree that you must have clothing on to function in our society, and to enter a voting location to vote. So what happens if a bum who has no money to buy clothes shows up, wants to vote, but is not wearing clothes. If he is turned away, the underlying cause is the exact same reason.
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Originally Posted by HistorianDude
You miss the point.
Poll taxes were not unconstitutional because they cost. They were unconstitutional because they discriminated against certain classes of people, violating the equal protection clause.
Indeed, but requirements for ID are put upon everyone, not just certain classes of people.
I'm waiting for you to cite for me ONE state that requires voter identification, but doesnt offer a way to obtain it free.
It's the other way around because NONE of them offer it for "free." They ALL require you to present a document such as a birth certificate, which you must pay for. So I'm waiting for you to cite one state that pays for such documents in order to make the voter ID "free."
It's the other way around because NONE of them offer it for "free." They ALL require you to present a document such as a birth certificate, which you must pay for. So I'm waiting for you to cite one state that pays for such documents in order to make the voter ID "free."
Hello negative fallacy. Actually, the state of South Carolina allows voters who cannot or are unable to get the necessary birth certificates, etc to sign an affidavit and then receive the free voter ID card. They'll even give you a free ride to get the voter ID card. There's your state.
Hello negative fallacy. Actually, the state of South Carolina allows voters who cannot or are unable to get the necessary birth certificates, etc to sign an affidavit and then receive the free voter ID card. They'll even give you a free ride to get the voter ID card. There's your state.
That's where I already explained I was going a bit off topic and expanding the discussion. My answer was in an ongoing conversation where I claimed that voter ID could work if done correctly and that other states should look to those states as a model.
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