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No, the people of Detroit and city government owns they debt... they created it.....they are responsible for it.
By any objective measure it is.
And Liberals own everyone of them.
Detroit will never rebound until it rejects Liberal ideology.
The city will never be rebuilt economically. They'll stay with the same failed Liberal policies that got them into this mess in the first place.
If it was up to me, Chapter 9 would be just like Chapter 11.
A court-appointed receiver would assume control of the city and run the city until it was out of the red and into the black.
In the mean time....no elections.
The court-appointed receiver would slash the budget, terminate all contract, dump the unions and fire all city employees....as it should be.
But, of course! Liberals live in an Ivory Tower and don't understand reality.
It has everything to do with Liberal politics.
It was Johnson's Grotesque Society, coupled with high taxation, unionization, corrupt government, corrupt unions and a stupid electorate that killed Detroit. Johnson's Grotesque Society, high taxation and unions only gutted other cities.
Oppressive government regulations, high taxation and unions drove the Textile Industry out of New England.
Oppressive government regulations, high taxation and unions drove the Manufacturing Industry out of the Midwest, and yes that includes both Michigan and Detroit.
Just as soon as you gain the courage to come out of your Ivory Tower, you'll see things more clearly.
Historically...
Mircea
One still does not win an argument by encyclopediaing it to death.
Detroit was done in by changing economic conditions and bias. The white and the well off blacks moved out. Leaving the poor and mostly Black to deal with the results. If you want people to pay for that which they caused run down all those who moved...and without paying their share of the bill.
The only rational solution is to fold Detroit into its surround. The metro area can handle the load. Detroit never will. And as it is not fixed it will simply worsen until the County and State are forced to act.
You cannot squeeze more out of the Detroit inhabitants because they have nothing.
You cannot cease running the city as the metro is dependent on it. Close the freeways for a few days and see how it feels.
Neo-cons like to point to the fact that UNIONS (who donate heavily democrat) brought Detroit down...
Yet they often ignore the fact that
A) Detroit did not have a diverse industry
B) There are many abandoned ghost towns in the United States, many of which are in conservative rural areas.
Also, the concept of Unions does not bring failure by itself, just as the concept of Corporations does not bring failure by itself. Just look at the competitiveness of German and Japanese Unions compared to the ones which brought the fall of Detroit.
In my opinion Unions and Corporate Boards are all types of "worker organization", and both are free market concept.
Furthermore the free market is a Liberal (in the sense that it was the liberals who wanted to get away from the crown) - Conservative (In the sense that it is now the conservatives who want to protect it from oppression) collaboration that should be defended with a combined effort from the authoritarians.
Yes Michigan is a democrat state that isn't doing well...
...But neither is West Virginia.
What I am saying is...
Screw the concepts of things like fiscal conservatism and social liberalism...
...And EMBRACE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND SOCIAL FREEDOM!
Detroit is a perfect example of what you get when you combine liberal government with liberal control of unions. Implosion.
Unions by themselves are not a bad thing but unions with liberal idealism making the rules is disastrous.
It was the unions that made Detroit unable to compete in a world market, and not because of the wages, because unions mandate guidelines for promotion and tie the hands of business to run itself.
Detroit is a perfect example of what you get when you combine liberal government with liberal control of unions. Implosion.
Unions by themselves are not a bad thing but unions with liberal idealism making the rules is disastrous.
It was the unions that made Detroit unable to compete in a world market, and not because of the wages, because unions mandate guidelines for promotion and tie the hands of business to run itself.
God bless the sit down strikers of the past.
They were wonderful.....and from their satisfice came SO many great things.....safe working conditions....fair lunch and coffee breaks...paid vacations and holidays.....overtime.....so many things.
Their time came and has pasted.
These things have now been put into labor laws.....and rightly so.
Detroit is a perfect example of what you get when you combine liberal government with liberal control of unions. Implosion.
Unions by themselves are not a bad thing but unions with liberal idealism making the rules is disastrous.
It was the unions that made Detroit unable to compete in a world market, and not because of the wages, because unions mandate guidelines for promotion and tie the hands of business to run itself.
Oh the poor blameless CEOs "victimized" by their own lowly workers. OK, y'all labor-hating righties just stick to those fascist Roger Ailes scripts no matter what.
It was Johnson's Grotesque Society, coupled with high taxation, unionization, corrupt government, corrupt unions and a stupid electorate that killed Detroit. Johnson's Grotesque Society, high taxation and unions only gutted other cities.
Oppressive government regulations, high taxation and unions drove the Textile Industry out of New England.
Oppressive government regulations, high taxation and unions drove the Manufacturing Industry out of the Midwest, and yes that includes both Michigan and Detroit.
Just as soon as you gain the courage to come out of your Ivory Tower, you'll see things more clearly.
Historically...
Mircea
It had a lot less to do with liberal politics than you think actually (although much of the movement of industry had to do with the fact that the VAST majority of new deal, and WWII money went to the sunbelt, in the form of new factories and construction, etc"). But to an extent you are right about the fact that the greedy owners were not willing to pay a fair tax, and have reasonable regulations, and so they left for the craziest of the crazy states *cough Texas*(much of the growth there was from the oil industry there. Also, the abandonment of cities had more to do with a pull factor to the suburbs, and any push factor from urban areas had more to do with the fact that cities at the time were often VERY crowded and dirty. Trust me, you're the one stuck in the Ivy tower blaming all the world's problems on liberalism.
The failure of Detroit is a liberal failure. The auto industry didn't collapse. It is going very well. But Detroit filed bankruptcy. It's not an economic failure. It's a political failure. The city failed to attract, retain, and diversify industries. Other cities and countries did. I don't care what unions did but you did not retain the industry period.
Other so called liberal cities can attract and retain businesses not because they are liberal, but because of a mix of factors. Most of these cities offer tax incentives and other business friendly policies that resemble those of conservative cities. Some of them have good universities and a high tech workforce, much of which comes from overseas. Some have other assets like tourism, natural resources, etc.
A city's success is a complex story. But one thing is for sure, if the city is hostile to business, it will not end up very well.
Just where are these conservative cities at? Wasilla,AK?
Detroit was done in by changing economic conditions and bias.
Caused by Liberal policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
The white and the well off blacks moved out.
Because of Liberal policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
Leaving the poor and mostly Black to deal with the results.
And they impressed the holy hell out of me by rising to the occasion, right?
Not.
I guess it's a good thing all of the so-called self-proclaimed Black "leaders" guided the people into re-building the city into something good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
If you want people to pay for that which they caused run down all those who moved...and without paying their share of the bill.
Uh, no, people are not obligated to fund your hallucinatory fantasy utopia.
If you want to hand out needles and condoms and feed the alcoholics and drug addicts who you claim are "homeless" then you take your money and do it on your time...
...you don't take my money and then scream about how righteous you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
The only rational solution is to fold Detroit into its surround. The metro area can handle the load. Detroit never will. And as it is not fixed it will simply worsen until the County and State are forced to act.
Then that would be the death knell for Wayne County.
Yeah, let's burden successful people with abject failures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
You cannot squeeze more out of the Detroit inhabitants because they have nothing.
They certainly have no intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23
Also, the abandonment of cities had more to do with a pull factor to the suburbs, and any push factor from urban areas had more to do with...
...Tax and Spend Liberal policies.
The first order of business in any municipality is Security...first and foremost, always and forever. The second priority is fire. The 3rd priority is safety. After that, drinking water, sewage treatment, garbage removal and infrastructure.
Once you have achieved an A+ Rating in those 7 Fundamentals of Municipal Operation, then you may start thinking about things like throwing away money handing out condoms and needles, and drug treatment and feeding and housing the homeless and feel-good money and giving pay raises to council members and nice cushy union government employee pension plans and all the other Liberal nonsense.
Caused by Liberal policies.
Because of Liberal policies.
Uh, no, people are not obligated to fund your hallucinatory fantasy utopia.
...you don't take my money and then scream about how righteous you are.
...Tax and Spend Liberal policies.
--------------------------------
Mircea
Con-servatives are such hypocrites. As a taxpayer, explain why you love shoveling your money to the rich. Explain why the rich should be on the dole with your blessing. No right winger has explained this yet so you can be the first.
If you don't explain this, we can assume you have no answer.
Con-servatives are such hypocrites. As a taxpayer, explain why you love shoveling your money to the rich. Explain why the rich should be on the dole with your blessing. No right winger has explained this yet so you can be the first.
If you can't explain this, you are not earning your keep.
Many if not most of us work for corporations. I don't think rich or poor is useful in describing corporations.
One does need a source of capital but that may well come from organizations rather than individuals.
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