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I am still wondering why it is Ok to freeze an embyo if it is considered life or to let it die,
It's not OK. But that's a different discussion....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1
but not be used for research, from my understanding these embryos are frozen the minute they become one not after the heart is beating, which to me means life. Which I believe is part of the debate, when is life , life.
Exactly. But we need to get our terms straight here, starting with "life." A sperm is alive. An egg is alive. The cells in your hair follicles are alive. You have millions of skin cells that are alive. Lettuce is alive. Strawberries are alive. Gerbils are alive.
By every scientific definition all of those things are "life."
Is ending that life murder? No. You eat lettuce, you are destroying life, but you aren't committing murder.
Murder is one human deliberately killing another human. The definition we need to find is what constitutes a human. When does life become inherently human? Is it birth? No. Many, many, many fetuses who are born prematurely can survive given current medical technology. And they mature and grow up to become perfectly health people.
A beating heart doesn't seem to be a very logical definition either. If your heart stops beating, you cease being human. It just means your heart has stopped beating. If it stays stopped, you will day. If it starts again, you'll live. But it doesn't mean you ceased being human.
Is it the first detection of brain waves? Researchers disagree on exactly when that starts. I've seen studies that say brain waves are first detected around 40 days after conception, while I've seen other studies refuting those that claim it is closer to 120. I'm not a doctor, so I don't know.
But I'm not sure that is even a logical definition. First of all, just because we can't detect brain waves at 30 days after conception doesn't mean they aren't there. The fault may be in our technology. Or it might not, I'll grant you.
It is a fact, however, that a fetus left in normal, healthy conditions will develop brain waves and become an infant, child, adult, etc. as development continues. That's part of being human.
Everything I have read in science, medicine, philosophy, and religion leads me to conclude that a person becomes human at conception. Any willful ending of that life afterward is killing a human person. Whether or not that person is conscience, can feel pain, has a heartbeat or brain waves, is irrelevant.
And that is the crux of the argument we need to be having in this country: What makes us human, and when does that begin? All of the other issues of medical research, reproductive rights, etc. hinge on that.
Regardless of how one feels about stem cell research, accusing Fox of exaggerating his symptoms is, at best ignorant, and at worst, extremely offensive. I work with senior citizens and the disabled, and Parkinsons is a terrible, terrible disease. There is no need for its symptoms to be exaggerated and the worst symptoms, the real day-to-day living issues Parkinsons causes, cannot even be shown on television.
He admitted he does that, now he said he took too much medication. He admits it.
It's not OK. But that's a different discussion....
Exactly. But we need to get our terms straight here, starting with "life." A sperm is alive. An egg is alive. The cells in your hair follicles are alive. You have millions of skin cells that are alive. Lettuce is alive. Strawberries are alive. Gerbils are alive.
By every scientific definition all of those things are "life."
Is ending that life murder? No. You eat lettuce, you are destroying life, but you aren't committing murder.
Murder is one human deliberately killing another human. The definition we need to find is what constitutes a human. When does life become inherently human? Is it birth? No. Many, many, many fetuses who are born prematurely can survive given current medical technology. And they mature and grow up to become perfectly health people.
A beating heart doesn't seem to be a very logical definition either. If your heart stops beating, you cease being human. It just means your heart has stopped beating. If it stays stopped, you will day. If it starts again, you'll live. But it doesn't mean you ceased being human.
Is it the first detection of brain waves? Researchers disagree on exactly when that starts. I've seen studies that say brain waves are first detected around 40 days after conception, while I've seen other studies refuting those that claim it is closer to 120. I'm not a doctor, so I don't know.
But I'm not sure that is even a logical definition. First of all, just because we can't detect brain waves at 30 days after conception doesn't mean they aren't there. The fault may be in our technology. Or it might not, I'll grant you.
It is a fact, however, that a fetus left in normal, healthy conditions will develop brain waves and become an infant, child, adult, etc. as development continues. That's part of being human.
Everything I have read in science, medicine, philosophy, and religion leads me to conclude that a person becomes human at conception. Any willful ending of that life afterward is killing a human person. Whether or not that person is conscience, can feel pain, has a heartbeat or brain waves, is irrelevant.
And that is the crux of the argument we need to be having in this country: What makes us human, and when does that begin? All of the other issues of medical research, reproductive rights, etc. hinge on that.
I agree, but for me I dont believe life begins at conception to me they are cells, that if left alone will develop or not sometimes into a human. I do not believe, they should use already developed fetuses to me there is a difference in the two. ( maybe I shouldnt cut my hair! )
If you got your "facts" from someone other than an oxycontin/viagra-popping/racist/hypocritical waste of plasma, you'd know that the shakes and twitches are a side effect of being ON the medicine. When a Parkinson's victim is off meds, they stiffen up to the point where they can't move at all.
I see where you got your facts. I listen to the entire show. Not a clip from the coke sniffers on CNN.
To get things like stem-cell research funded, you HAVE to be political. What is wrong with Fox wanting to be on the side of the ones who are going to get the funding to cure his disease?
Stem cell research is going on. No one is against stem cell research. They are talking about embryos and cloning. It's all about abortion.
Stem cell research is going on. No one is against stem cell research. They are talking about embryos and cloning. It's all about abortion.
Precisely.
And I say again precisely, not to be a show-off but because my message has to be so many letters long. La-dee-dah. Is this enough letters now? Hitting SEND....
If you got your "facts" from someone other than an oxycontin/viagra-popping/racist/hypocritical waste of plasma, you'd know that the shakes and twitches are a side effect of being ON the medicine. When a Parkinson's victim is off meds, they stiffen up to the point where they can't move at all.
Why doesn't Fox tell the truth to get his point across. I'm sick of these people try to make the conservatives look like what they are not. I will stand up for it even if it's not popular.
cells with one hell of a kick!! My point is I have thought, have a personality, (have hair!) I walk and talk, know pain, know sadness, know happiness, grief, smile, laugh, argue, cry all the things that make you human and most fetuses do some of these things in the womb like suck there thumb and practice breathing moving blow bubbles ( I have that on a sonogram of my son) which Is why I will not support using fetuses, now if an embryo that is a couple of days old does that then I will change my mind.
Stem cell research is going on. No one is against stem cell research. They are talking about embryos and cloning. It's all about abortion.
Abortion, I thought an abortion is when a woman is pregnant with a fetus? these are donated cells. I cant get into the abortion debate.
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