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Most people aren't interested in history,certainly not enough to learn on their own...
I knew of the Cuban missile crisis and it was years before I was born and I was not even an American....
Funny how JFK is lauded as an almost Saint yet he involved the USA in Viet Nam,invading another nation,etc ,etc...
JFK was certainly no saint, nor was he the first President to involve the US in Vietnam. Like Eisenhower before him and several Presidents after him, JFK was merely adhering to Truman's "Policy of Containment." The biggest problem with that policy is that there can never be a victor. Under the best circumstances the "Policy of Containment" leads to a stalemate, as with North Korea where we have had a 54-year cease-fire. Under the worst circumstances the "Policy of Containment" leads to Vietnam. The military should only be used to win wars, or not used at all.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC
I agree,as a 'former furriner' I guess I do not have the blinders that so many Americans have when it comes to JFK..
From the little I have read he seems to have been a bit of a globalist at heart.
I think he was very much a realist, he seemed to understand and accept that the world would not necessarily always agree with the US and that we'd have to find ways to co-exist...............or perish.
The missile crisis was a scary time, probably as close as we've come to the brink. Looking back I think I'll always consider its peaceful resolution as the great achievement of JFK's short time in the White House.
The reason we were in Vietnam was to keep communism from spreading. Cuba had already fallen to communists. Which is why JFK increased the number of US troops in Vietnam from 2,000 in 1961 to 20,000 by 1963.
The situation, nevertheless looked mighty strange and stupid. Who knows how much spying on the United States the Soviet Union was able to do from Cuba while the U. S. was fighting in Viet Nam.
People who love Kennedy and hate LBJ are deluding themselves, I think. LBJ continued Kennedy's policies, he didn't create them de novo. Escalating Vietnam was the endgame for Kennedy's war he inherited from Eisenhower, which in turns was picked up from France after they failed in their war to suppress the Vietnamese (and the United States chose to side with fighting communism rather than fighting colonialism).
People who love Kennedy and hate LBJ are deluding themselves, I think. LBJ continued Kennedy's policies, he didn't create them de novo. Escalating Vietnam was the endgame for Kennedy's war he inherited from Eisenhower, which in turns was picked up from France after they failed in their war to suppress the Vietnamese (and the United States chose to side with fighting communism rather than fighting colonialism).
Don't forget that Truman reversed FDR's promises to the Vietnamese, and supported the resumption of French colonial rule in Indochina, even after the Vietnamese had kept their part of the bargain by opposing Japanese aggression.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus
People who love Kennedy and hate LBJ are deluding themselves, I think. LBJ continued Kennedy's policies, he didn't create them de novo. Escalating Vietnam was the endgame for Kennedy's war he inherited from Eisenhower, which in turns was picked up from France after they failed in their war to suppress the Vietnamese (and the United States chose to side with fighting communism rather than fighting colonialism).
From the JFK Library:
The situation did not improve. In September of 1963, President Kennedy declared in an interview, “In the final analysis, it is their war. They are the ones who have to win it or lose it. We can help them, we can give them equipment, we can send our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it, the people of Vietnam, against the Communists... But I don't agree with those who say we should withdraw. That would be a great mistake.... [The United States] made this effort to defend Europe. Now Europe is quite secure. We also have to participate—we may not like it—in the defense of Asia.”
A few weeks later, on November 1, 1963, in a coup given tacit approval by the Kennedy administration, the South Vietnamese government was overthrown. President Diem, refusing an American offer of safety contingent upon his resignation, was assassinated. In the final weeks of his life, Kennedy wrestled with the need to decide the future of the United States’ commitment in Vietnam. Whether or not Kennedy would have increased military involvement in Vietnam or negotiated a withdrawal of military personnel still remains hotly debated among historians and officials who served in the administrations of President Kennedy and President Lyndon B. Johnson.
Unfortunately, we'll probably never know the whole story. He did seem to believe it would be for the Vietnamese to win or lose.
Thanks for searching that out, burdell. An interesting read, and retrospectively, it sounds as if JFK was struggling with the issue. I suspect every President, including our present President, struggles with these decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
From the JFK Library:
The situation did not improve. In September of 1963, President Kennedy declared in an interview, “In the final analysis, it is their war. They are the ones who have to win it or lose it. We can help them, we can give them equipment, we can send our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it, the people of Vietnam, against the Communists... But I don't agree with those who say we should withdraw. That would be a great mistake.... [The United States] made this effort to defend Europe. Now Europe is quite secure. We also have to participate—we may not like it—in the defense of Asia.”
A few weeks later, on November 1, 1963, in a coup given tacit approval by the Kennedy administration, the South Vietnamese government was overthrown. President Diem, refusing an American offer of safety contingent upon his resignation, was assassinated. In the final weeks of his life, Kennedy wrestled with the need to decide the future of the United States’ commitment in Vietnam. Whether or not Kennedy would have increased military involvement in Vietnam or negotiated a withdrawal of military personnel still remains hotly debated among historians and officials who served in the administrations of President Kennedy and President Lyndon B. Johnson.
Unfortunately, we'll probably never know the whole story. He did seem to believe it would be for the Vietnamese to win or lose.
I grew up in Columbus Ohio. In 1962 I was in the 6th grade (in October). We never heard a thing about it. We also never had duck & cover drills ... had plenty of fire-drills.
I didn't learn about the Cuban Missile Crisis until some months later, Ed Sullivan was paying tribute to a couple of fellows from the Bay of Pigs invasion team.
I don't know who's to blame for us not knowing - school? parents? But we just didn't have much of the H-Bomb scare going on ... oh, the talk was there - and bomb-shelters were talked about ... but my little piece of Ohio didn't seem to care.
I grew up in Columbus Ohio. In 1962 I was in the 6th grade (in October). We never heard a thing about it. We also never had duck & cover drills ... had plenty of fire-drills.
I didn't learn about the Cuban Missile Crisis until some months later, Ed Sullivan was paying tribute to a couple of fellows from the Bay of Pigs invasion team.
I don't know who's to blame for us not knowing - school? parents? But we just didn't have much of the H-Bomb scare going on ... oh, the talk was there - and bomb-shelters were talked about ... but my little piece of Ohio didn't seem to care.
The Bay of Pigs fiasco and the Cuban Missile Crisis were too completely separate events. The failed invasion of Cuba occurred in April 1961. The Cuban Missile Crisis occurred in October 1962.
I do, however, give JFK credit for accepting the responsibility for the failed invasion of Cuba when he could have easily placed the blame on the CIA. Ultimately, as Commander-In-Chief, it was his responsibility and he made the decision not to provide the air-support that was part of the original plan. Whether or not it would have been successful had JFK adhered to the plan is anybodies guess.
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