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When they all publically speak out and say that the official 9-11 theory is garbage, doesn't that make you curious as to why they would all risk their reputations or worse, to speak out? You think they do it just as a lark? Don't expect me to make a complete thesis on these boards for you. That's not my job. My job is to pique your curiousity and perhaps motivate you to do some of YOUR OWN research. If you have no interest in taking the time to do that, I can't help you.
Innocent until proven guilty. Those accusing are the ones who have to prove the guilt.
Personally, as I've stated before, anything is possible, but I've heard this theory over and over and don't tend to believe something to be true unless I see at least some proof of guilt. Again, where is the proof that the US gov't planted explosives?
the "crazies" still come up with conspiracy theories. it still goes on with JFK.
no doubt they might have gotten a lil help like us igoring info that 911 was guna happen.
however the actual act, nope, bin laden did it, admitted it on world tv broadcast.
that is how we got 3 trillion in debt so fast, and DOD got again, to be the giant it used to be.
ps
an old guy note
this is not the first time that elements in the us government wanted a war to happen.
spanish american, pearl harbor.
we did not start it, but we definitely did things to insure that it would happen.
definitely preventative measures were removed or simply not taken.
being specific on pear harbor
ground to air incoming radio security procedures were suspended
grounded plane formation procedure for scramble were suspended
radar security alerts were ordered to stand down
That theory, I find to be more plausible, that the government lacked the desire to do what was needed to prevent it. But I don't know if it was entirely to jump start a war. In part, perhaps, but I think that part of it was also lack of intelligent planning and lack of sufficient analysis.
Proof the Government did it? There is plenty of circumstantial evidence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide
Innocent until proven guilty. Those accusing are the ones who have to prove the guilt.
Personally, as I've stated before, anything is possible, but I've heard this theory over and over and don't tend to believe something to be true unless I see at least some proof of guilt. Again, where is the proof that the US gov't planted explosives?
And you can convict on circumstantial evidence -
Like who had access to the twin towers in the months prior to 9-11? A company called Securicom did, where Bush's brother is a principal, and there were many witnesses to elevators being shut down for weeks and mysterious movement of heavy equipment to vacant floors in the towers.
Like the planned air attack drills coincidently on the day of 9-11, planes being sent to NYC and Washington DC to strike tragets, then have Condeleeza say after 9-11 that 'we could never imagine planes being used as weapons'. That's why the air controllers were asking 'is this part of the drill?' when asked about the runaway planes.
Like Cheney being asked what to do about the plane headined towards Washington, and doing nothing
Like Bush saying he saw the first plane hit on the way to the 6th grader talk, then going ahead with reading 'the pet goat'. If Cheney had organized the simulated air attacks in the weeks prior, don't you think he might think that a plane actually hitting a tower is not just a lost pilot?
Like workers in the towers reporting basement explosions powerful enough to blow out all the windows on the first sloor of the towers PRIOR to the towers starting to implode.
Like the physical impossibility of a steel structure as strong as that offering the same resistance as AIR.
Like 7 of the 19 supposed hijackers appearing in public later
Like building 7 imploding and it's steel structure offering no resistance, when it was not struck by anything except debris from the other towers.
Like building 7 being evacuated by Guiliani, when he said that the 2 towers would be coming down - how did he know? that building was his command tower.
Like Silverstein, who collected 500 million in insurance because he insured the towers a couple of months prior, saying he gave the order to 'pull it'.
Like Bush sitting there for 5 minutes AFTER the 2nd plane hit like a deer caught in the headlights, then casually joking with teachers as he mosied out.
Like Jerome Haur, director of Kroll Security, a security firm for the WTC complex, having a complete theory of who planned the attack 30 minutes after it occured.
Like the way the smoldering evidence of a crime scene was whisked away without any inspection. Less than half the money spent to investigate Clintons affairs was spent to investigate the most important event of the 21st century.
There are many other items I could mention, but that should be enough to motivate a thinking person to look into it. The next step would be to realize that the government will and has in the past, used false flag operations to enable what it feels is the best direction for the country.
1) the conspiracy state that the government planted dynamite in the WTC
2) the conspiracy state that the government shot down the plane by missle in PA.
If all of this was planned, why the need to shoot down a plane? Why the need to even have a 3rd plane?
And you can convict on circumstantial evidence -
Like who had access to the twin towers in the months prior to 9-11? A company called Securicom did, where Bush's brother is a principal, and there were many witnesses to elevators being shut down for weeks and mysterious movement of heavy equipment to vacant floors in the towers.
Like the planned air attack drills coincidently on the day of 9-11, planes being sent to NYC and Washington DC to strike tragets, then have Condeleeza say after 9-11 that 'we could never imagine planes being used as weapons'. That's why the air controllers were asking 'is this part of the drill?' when asked about the runaway planes.
Like Cheney being asked what to do about the plane headined towards Washington, and doing nothing
Like Bush saying he saw the first plane hit on the way to the 6th grader talk, then going ahead with reading 'the pet goat'. If Cheney had organized the simulated air attacks in the weeks prior, don't you think he might think that a plane actually hitting a tower is not just a lost pilot?
Like workers in the towers reporting basement explosions powerful enough to blow out all the windows on the first sloor of the towers PRIOR to the towers starting to implode.
Like the physical impossibility of a steel structure as strong as that offering the same resistance as AIR.
Like 7 of the 19 supposed hijackers appearing in public later
Like building 7 imploding and it's steel structure offering no resistance, when it was not struck by anything except debris from the other towers.
Like building 7 being evacuated by Guiliani, when he said that the 2 towers would be coming down - how did he know? that building was his command tower.
Like Silverstein, who collected 500 million in insurance because he insured the towers a couple of months prior, saying he gave the order to 'pull it'.
Like Bush sitting there for 5 minutes AFTER the 2nd plane hit like a deer caught in the headlights, then casually joking with teachers as he mosied out.
Like Jerome Haur, director of Kroll Security, a security firm for the WTC complex, having a complete theory of who planned the attack 30 minutes after it occured.
Like the way the smoldering evidence of a crime scene was whisked away without any inspection. Less than half the money spent to investigate Clintons affairs was spent to investigate the most important event of the 21st century.
There are many other items I could mention, but that should be enough to motivate a thinking person to look into it. The next step would be to realize that the government will and has in the past, used false flag operations to enable what it feels is the best direction for the country.
Oh god, this is to funny..
The crime scene was "whisked away without inspection",
The director of security having a THEORY of who planned the attack, (even though the buildings been attacked before).
Bush sitting in a classroom.
Silverstein, having $500M worth of insurance on the property (and then accusations that someone hear, that someone hear, that someone heard, him say it was coming down).
Evacuating building 7, to save peoples lives, but not the other 2 towers.. um, that makes no sense..
Ever since the Spanish american war we have had a plan in effect. All US Naval ships will be built with a false bottom so that we can easily sink our own ships. With the dawn of the skyscraper the same plan was reapplied to planting super strong explosives in all support collums. This way if ever in the future we wanted to start a war we could blow up our own buildings. No one would witness the months of prework involved. All those involved with the initial planting of the super explosives would mysteriously die during construction.
WWII Pearl harbor was attacked by US carrier planes painted to look like Japanese planes. We wanted to extend our influence in asia so we faked Pearl Harbor and then blamed Japan. As the war went on and the public wanted an end to it we then faked the Bataan Death march to get the support back. Yes its the Republicans who designed these plots. All the way back to the civil war. LIncoln that cold hearted republican always wanted a house in South Carolina so he started a war to get one.
No I don't have any real facts. I only have theories and conjecture. WE can go find people who have never designed a building but are experts on the subject. WE can find people who never built a ship but can discuss in detail how to sink them, and we can find experts on civil war realestate that will back up any anti gov claims.
Just like the 911 conspiracy theorests. They come out of the wood work...
Thats the reason office towers tend to not have floor 13. The floor really exists, shhh we just arent supposed to know that dynamite is stored there..
Let David Griffin Answer Your Questions If You Don't Like Mine
[SIZE=2]HERE'S A COURAGEOUS MAN, UNAFRAID OF THE TRUTH - UNLIKE MOST ON THIS BOARD
David Ray Griffin's Response to Cockburn
The Truly Distracting 9/11 Conspiracy Theory:
A Reply to Alexander Cockburn
Alexander Cockburn's "US: The Conspiracy That Wasn't," which is an attack on the 9/11 truth movement, is faulty in virtually every respect.
He calls me one of the movement's "high priests," as if it were a religious movement, rather than a fact-based movement that involves scientists, engineers, pilots, war veterans, politicians, philosophers, former air traffic controllers, former defense ministers, and former CIA analysts.1
He calls us "conspiracists," ignoring the fact that in defending the government's account, he is defending the original 9/11 conspiracy theory.
In claiming that the Bush administration and the military are too incompetent to have organized the 9/11 attacks, he gives an argument that could equally well be used to prove that they could not have organized the military assaults on Afghanistan and Iraq.
In claiming that bin Laden took credit for the attacks, Cockburn appears not to be aware that in the video on which this claim is primarily based, the man playing Osama bin Laden is heavier and darker than the bin Laden of all undoubtedly authentic videos,2 or that the FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorist" page on bin Laden does not mention 9/11---because, an FBI spokesman explained, "the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11." 3
Although Cockburn says that members of our movement are "immune to reality check," he endorses the official theory of the collapses of the Twin Towers, which can be held only by ignoring an enormous number of facts.
He says the towers were poorly built, whereas in reality they were built to withstand virtually any eventuality, including being hit by large airliners.
He says the towers collapsed because of being struck by planes loaded with jet fuel, but WTC 7, which was not struck by a plane, also collapsed.
In rejecting the claim that explosives had been planted, Cockburn ignores the fact that 118 members of the Fire Department gave testimony indicating that explosives had gone off.4 (I quoted 31 of these, along with journalists and WTC employees, in an essay entitled "Explosive Testimony. 5)
The official theory about these buildings, which Cockburn defends, is contradicted by all prior history, in which total collapses of steel-frame high-rise buildings have never been caused by externally caused damage plus fire, even when the fires were much bigger and lasted much longer.
The idea that explosives were used is further strengthened by the many features of the collapses:
1. They were symmetrical, straight-down collapses, meaning that all 287 columns in each of the towers (47 massive core columns and 240 perimeter columns) and all 81 columns in WTC 7 had to collapse simultaneously. To believe that this could have been caused by fire, which was not spread evenly throughout any of the buildings, is to believe in a miracle.
2. The collapses were total, with each skyscraper collapsing into a pile of rubble only a few stories high. Accordingly, each of the steel columns had to be sliced into many pieces---which is what explosives do in controlled implosions.
3. Virtually all of the concrete and furniture was pulverized into extremely fine dust particles (which created huge dust clouds). Fire plus gravity would not have provided nearly enough energy to do this.
4. At the beginning of the collapse of each of the Twin Towers, which started near the top, steel beams were ejected out horizontally as far as 600 feet. Gravitational energy, which is vertical, cannot begin to explain these massive horizontal ejections. (In his companion essay, "Conspiracy Disproved," Cockburn suggests, incredibly, that nothing was ejected other than "puffs of smoke." He also seems unaware that signs of explosions occurred near the impact point, not simply 20 to 60 floors lower, and falsely assumes that the timing of the explosions would have to be determined beforehand.)
5. All three buildings came down at virtually free-fall speed, meaning that the lower floors, with all their steel and concrete, were providing no resistance to the upper floors. Cockburn says: "There is not the slightest need to postulate pre-placed explosive charges to explain why the towers collapsed at near free-fall speeds." But that claim violates basic laws of physics.
5. For many weeks afterwards, pools of molten metal were found under each building. Steel does not begin to melt until it reaches about 1,540°C, whereas the fires could not have been over 1000°C. 6
In "Conspiracy Disproved," Cockburn endorses the report put out by the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST). But this report by this Bush administration agency is completely unscientific, announcing conclusions that radically contradict the data provided in its supporting volumes. 7
Although I have focused here on the World Trade Center, there is strong evidence against every other dimension of the official conspiracy theory, which I have presented in The New Pearl Harbor and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. In the latter book, I showed that the Commission's report contains at least 115 lies of omission and distortion.
Cockburn appears to be unwilling to look at such evidence because he is convinced that the effort to show 9/11 to have been an inside job is a distraction from really important matters. However, if 9/11 was indeed an inside job, then what could be more important than exposing this fact? The idea that America was attacked by foreign terrorists on 9/11 has been used to justify the war in Iraq and virtually every other way in which the United States has made the world an uglier, more dangerous place since 9/11.
It has also been used to distract attention from the problem of global warming, which is the really serious threat to human civilization. The official conspiracy theory about 9/11, in other words, is the true distraction.
David Ray Griffin has published 30 books, most recently 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out, co-edited with Peter Dale Scott (Olive Branch, Northampton, Mass., 2006).
See Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Veterans for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11
1 Truth, and Patriots Question 9/11 (all online).
3 See "Fake bin Laden Video" (online).
3 Ed Haas, "FBI says, 'No Hard Evidence Connecting Bin Laden to 9/11'" Muckraker Report (online), June 6, 2006.
4 Graeme MacQueen, "118 Witnesses: The Firefighters' Testimony to Explosions in the Twin Towers," Journal of 9/11 Studies (online), Aug. 2006.
5 "Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories," 911Truth.org.
6 Griffin, "The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True," in Paul Zarembka, ed., The Hidden History of 9-11-2001 (Amsterdam: Elsevier, 2006), 79-122; also at 911Review.com.
7 See my chapter on NIST in Griffin, Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory (Olive Branch, Northampton, Mass., 2007).
Source: www.reopen911.info
Oh god, this is to funny..
The crime scene was "whisked away without inspection",
The director of security having a THEORY of who planned the attack, (even though the buildings been attacked before).
Bush sitting in a classroom.
Silverstein, having $500M worth of insurance on the property (and then accusations that someone hear, that someone hear, that someone heard, him say it was coming down).
Evacuating building 7, to save peoples lives, but not the other 2 towers.. um, that makes no sense..
You seem to think it strange that Guiliani would evacuate himself from a building he knew was going down? He's prescient, didn't you know? He knew the other towers were coming down, when there has never been a steel framed building in history that has collapsed from fire. The people in the other tower were actually sent back into the building. Guess the more casualties the better if your agenda is worth more than human life.
You seem to think it strange that Guiliani would evacuate himself from a building he knew was going down? He's prescient, didn't you know? He knew the other towers were coming down, when there has never been a steel framed building in history that has collapsed from fire. The people in the other tower were actually sent back into the building. Guess the more casualties the better if your agenda is worth more than human life.
Learn building dynamics and read about the plates these buildings were built on.. then come back and debate the issue because they actually expected several more buildings to fall.
Have you even been there to see the location?
note:.. I see I still havent received an answer to my question.. so here it goes again. The one thing thats never made any sense to me..
1) the conspiracy state that the government planted dynamite in the WTC 2) the conspiracy state that the government shot down the plane by missle in PA.
If all of this was planned, why the need to shoot down a plane? Why the need to even have a 3rd plane?
The trade towers were among the strongest buildings in the world, designed by top architects and structural engineers to withstand multiple air strikes and trap the fires, and yet they were the only steel structures to ever collapse from fire. And they fell at free fall speed, with virtually no resistance, steel beams cut into neat 13 foot lengths, molten steel pools that burned for weeks, and concrete was pulverized. A third tower fell at free fall speed when no plane hit it. Can this story be believed by an intelligent person? - not by all, there is a site called 'Scholars for 9-11 Truth' where some of the brightest minds arround the world call into question the 'official' version of the 9-11 events.
Now this is one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
These kind of conspiracy theories is a disservice to the thousands of men, women, and children who were murdered on 9/11.
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Proof the Government did it? There is plenty of circumstantial evidence
