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View Poll Results: Should concealed weapons be allowed on campus and should gun free zones be elminated?
Yes - those with CCW permits should be allowed on campus 31 55.36%
No - no concealed weapons should be allowed on campus 26 46.43%
Yes - the mall gun free zones should be eliminated 15 26.79%
No - Keep the gun free zones in malls 14 25.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-13-2007, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052

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The excerpt identified the relationship between robbery and CCW, not aggregate violent crime.

 
Old 12-13-2007, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,442,152 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
The excerpt identified the relationship between robbery and CCW, not aggregate violent crime.
Fine, if you want to cherry-pick data it is STILL wrong. The robbery rate per 100,000 inhabitants in DC is 658.4. The robbery rate per 100,000 inhabitants in every state of the Union is less than half that of DC.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 02:06 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,884 posts, read 20,399,779 times
Reputation: 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
You can safely conclude that your prior post is completely wrong. Pick any state you like, and they will have a lower violent crime rate than DC which flat out bans all handguns.
Absolutely. Florida is a big example of this. Violent crime took a nosedive after their CCW laws went on the books. Here in Texas, since our CCW law went into effect in 1995, our state population has grown by 20%, but our violent crime has dropped by 19%. That's with numbers from Katrina refugee crimes in 2005-2006.

That's a sign to me that something is working.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 02:18 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,631,619 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Violent crime took a nosedive after their CCW laws went on the books.
Florida's murder rate has actually taken a dramatic jump UP in the past couple of years. Why isn't Charlie Crist doing anything about that?
 
Old 12-13-2007, 03:38 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,884 posts, read 20,399,779 times
Reputation: 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Florida's murder rate has actually taken a dramatic jump UP in the past couple of years. Why isn't Charlie Crist doing anything about that?

Actually, the murder rate went down in 2005, then dramatically up in 2006. However, the murder rate overall now is lower than it was from 1980-1988. Not sure what the reasons are for 2006's numbers, but murder can involve many other weapons besides guns. I'm referring to violent crime stats overall. Florida's population has exploded since their CCW laws went into effect, going from 12 million people in 1987 to 18 million in 2006--and that's the legal ones. If Florida, like Texas, could get a grip on their immigrant issues, that might help some things, but Dade County has a LONG way to go before they can get any control on their crime rate.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 03:57 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,731,666 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
I don't know about biased, but I do know that it isn't true. DC has the most restrictive firearm provisions in the country. Alaska has the least restrictive firearm provisions in the country. According the FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2006, Alaska has a MUCH lower violent crime rate than DC. In fact, DC has the highest violent crime rate in the entire nation, by far.

The violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants in Alaska is 688. The violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants in DC is 1,508.4. So it would appear that Lott and Mustard were right all along.

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2006 (Violent Crime Rate by State) (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_05.html - broken link)
While DC's gun laws are restrictive, Virginia's are not. Almost any one can buy a gun in Virginia and they do. Those guns are then sold illegally in DC and in states like New York. It is not the restrictive gun laws in DC that are the problem. The problem is in how lax the gun laws are in Virginia.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 04:03 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,731,666 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
HAHAHAHA!!!! You expect any unbiased ideas from The Brady Bunch?? PLEASE!!!
The Brady Bunch? You can't discredit the information with facts, so you make fun Brady. How sad.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 04:08 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,731,666 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
The National Academy of Sciences is a left wing funded organization and it doesn't surprise me at all they disagree with Lott. He has challenged anyone to discredit any of his findings and NO ONE has been able to.
This is the NAS.

http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ABOUT_main_page (broken link)
 
Old 12-13-2007, 04:45 PM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,877,477 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
This passage from that page looks especially biased, no?

//
...
The decision to liberalize concealed carry laws by a number of state legislatures was based largely on findings drawn from one study authored by Dr. John Lott and David Mustard. Lott and Mustard claim that greatly easing restrictions on carrying concealed handguns will lead to a large decrease in crime. When first presented, Lott and Mustard's work was met with skepticism in the research community. Now, a growing body of empirical evidence has completely undermined the credibility of their claims.

Perhaps most compelling is the fact that robbery has declined twice as quickly in states with strict licensing or that do not allow concealed carrying at all than in states with lax CCW systems. If carrying concealed weapons reduces crime, it would be expected that the greatest effects would be seen on crimes that most often occur between strangers in public places, such as robbery. However, Lott and Mustard found virtually no beneficial effects from liberalizing the carrying of concealed weapons on robbery. As indicated above, robbery in restrictive CCW states fell twice as fast as in lax CCW states. Furthermore, reanalysis of Lott and Mustard's data by two different teams of researchers revealed that crime overall was just as likely to increase as decrease after states eased their carry laws — a finding which appears to be borne out by the FBI's crime data.
...
//
Sorry but every statemnt in this quote is FALSE and cannot be proven. The FBI stats do NOT reflect their claims. And the "teams of researchers" credibility has never been proven to be valid. in other words: a lot of crap.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 04:53 PM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,877,477 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by liliblu View Post
This is the NAS.

http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ABOUT_main_page (broken link)
Yeah, so am I supposed to be impressed by them or something? Just because they tout themselves as this wonderful organization? As for them having Nobel Peace Prize winners on staff don't make me laugh! This "Prize" has been won by some of the most corrupt people on the planet. The UN and Koffi (oil for food) Annon, Yassar Arafat, Gorbachev,Jimmy Carter (A complete disgrace as a president) The IPCC and AlGore ( A complete fool IMHO).
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