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And yet, there are millions of people who have never felt the need to own a firearm & have never been a victim of crime. How can that be?
Come up with some numbers on how many that HAVE been victims of crime and then we'll talk and please provide references. Just for your info, in the 7 years that we have lived in this house, 2 people have been killed within speaking distance of here. The trial started yesterday for the 17 year old girl that stabbed a 80 year old man out for his daily walk in the neighborhood and left his body in a ditch. This happened 3 houses from mine. I am 70 and I walk the neighborhood also with a cane (and I am packing). This is not going to happen to me.
I would rather have a gun and not need it than to not have a gun and need it.
The US has a problem with people killing people, regardless of method.
Well I wouldn't disagree with that statement, but....
Quote:
If you compare edged-weapon murder rates, the US is in the top five or six, sharing that top ten with Latin American and SE Asian countries, too.
Not only are you missing the point, but you are using the wrong matrix. The issue is lethality i.e. mortality rates the number of attacks is irrelevant, but the survival fatality or survival rate of those attacks. In a six year study published in The Journal of Trauma, the mortality rate for gunshot wounds was 22%
while that for stab wounds was 4%. A study conducted in South Africa over a 5 year period revealed similar results, the mortality rate from gunshots was eight times higher than those who had suffered knife wounds. Study from the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania found that:
4,122 patients taken to eight Level I and Level II adult trauma centers in Philadelphia between January 1, 2003 and December 31, 2007. Of these, 2,961 were transported by EMS and 1,161 by the police. The overall mortality rate was 27.4 percent. Just over three quarters (77.9 percent) of the victims suffered gunshot wounds, and just under a quarter (22.1 percent) suffered stab wounds. The majority of patients in both groups (84.1 percent) had signs of life on delivery to the hospital. A third of patients with gunshot wounds (33.0 percent) died compared with 7.7 percent of patients with stab wounds.
Need more evidence (as oppose to the offered bona fides of our latest internet Super SEAL)?
For penetrating thoracic injury the survival rate is fairly uniform at 18-33%, with stab wounds having a far greater chance of survival than gunshot wounds. Isolated thoracic stab wounds causing cardiac tamponade probably have the highest survival rate, approaching 70%. In contrast, gunshot wounds injuring more than one cardiac chamber and causing exsanguination have a much higher mortaility.
I don't have numbers slingshot. I live in a neighborhood where people are murdered as well. And? It happens. Still doesn't make me cower in fear & reach for a firearm. I even hang outside on my porch, right out in the open where anyone walking by in the park could take a shot at me. Still doesn't make me reach for a firearm.
Well I wouldn't disagree with that statement, but....
Not only are you missing the point,
You're missing my point. While edged weapons are less lethal, the intent was still, in most cases, to kill. Americans have too much of an intent to kill each other for a developed Western nation.
Lol, you can't really be prepared if someone shoots you first but ok!
Your right, but if your dead it really doesn't matter much at that point does it ? Situational awareness is what prepares you for the situation, the firearm is just the tool to deal with it. I'd rather be prepared than not. That is my choice, you have yours.
Scarab, you sound like a pretty sensible individual and quite frankly, not one of the scary types who is walking around with iron strapped to their body.
But, I don't think your comparison holds water.
The seatbelt, smoke detectors, sled and bike helmet...those things protect you, and are very unlikely to hurt me. Even in the "wrong" hands it is hard to argue that I live in fear of dying from an errant helmet.
But a gun? That is a whole different story. The shootout begins, the gun is stolen, or you accidently discharge it, and I have a very real possibility of getting hurt, or worse. Maybe not you, per se, but there are plenty of guns in some real moronic hands, and plenty of guns in the hands of criminals to whom my life, or your life, don't matter as much as getting their hands on ten bucks in order to score the next hit. Armed, unarmed, they don't really give a hoot when they shoot you. History has shown...especially recent history, that your chances of defending yourself with a gun are slim to none. More than likely it is going to escalate a situation where you might have otherwise escaped, but once the gun was introduced, it became a lethal challenge.
Sorry, I stick with my thesis that we have outgrown guns except in a sporting environment and there are plenty of ways to control their sale from manufacture to secure range.
I see your point, and I'm not going to argue with it. I see plenty of firearms holders that should even be allowed to drive a car much less own and carry a firearm. Owning and carrying a firearm is a HUGE responsibilty, and for those that make the ultimate mistake and shoot an innocent person either by negligence or not being on my target...well then they have to deal with the legal consequences and mental ones. A firearms owner should always be practicing and trying to further their skill set to help negate a negligent shooting.
As far as theft, I won't go any further than that doesn't even belong in this discussion. Things will be stolen, again it isn't the tool that is stolen but the criminal that steals it and plan on using it to harm others. Don't focus on the tool , but the criminal. Also I think your off some on your assumption that in recent history , having a firearm did not help. There have been more than a handful of defensive situations that the victims are alive because they were armed, here in the Metro Detroit area this past month.
I'm concealed carry, and could stand NEXT to you in a store and you would never have a clue...
Get over yourself, Quit already!
Has it occurred to you that that is exactly the problem with open carry? It intimidates people, and that is its only purpose. That's why some states ONLY allow concealed carry.
You shouldn't have a clue someone is concealed carrying. That's the whole point. But if you see someone pull a gun out of his jacket, you KNOW that he's going to start shooting. That's not the case with open carry. You don't know what the person's intent is.
Last edited by winkosmosis; 05-21-2014 at 01:51 PM..
I don't have numbers slingshot. I live in a neighborhood where people are murdered as well. And? It happens. Still doesn't make me cower in fear & reach for a firearm. I even hang outside on my porch, right out in the open where anyone walking by in the park could take a shot at me. Still doesn't make me reach for a firearm.
As do I to all of the above. "Cower in fear" has nothing to do with it. Being prepared does and I don't plan on reaching for a firearm until the need arises. Maybe the folks that were murdered in both of our neighborhoods would be alive today if they were armed.
Let me ask you this; I carry concealed, I am a u.s. army vet with overseas deployment and served to protect foreign dignitaries as well, with more training than some police officers. SO what's the difference between a cop open carrying in public, and a u.s. soldier?? Open carry is NOT necessarily meant to intimidate or bully, but merely a choice to allow ACCESS. DO you carry your phone in your purse, OR on your belt in a case??? DO you wear a watch or rely on the clock on your phone?? Same damn difference! STOP picking on subjects which you know very LITTLE about.
How do we know whether the guy by the school with an AR15 is a "good guy" or a "bad guy"? Wait until he starts shooting to decide?
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Just for your info, in the 7 years that we have lived in this house, 2 people have been killed within speaking distance of here. The trial started yesterday for the 17 year old girl that stabbed a 80 year old man out for his daily walk in the neighborhood and left his body in a ditch. This happened 3 houses from mine. I am 70 and I walk the neighborhood also with a cane (and I am packing). This is not going to happen to me.
