Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-01-2008, 06:09 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,707,067 times
Reputation: 199

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Such nonsense you write. Why? When I go on a drive to see the new additions in my town where very beautiful new homes are being built, I certainly not get the sense that anyone is being punished for being successful. Instead, I get the opposite feeling.
lol, what do you call it when more and more of your money is taken the more successful you are? Just because they happen to have enough left over to spend on themselves doesn't mean they aren't being taxed unfairly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-01-2008, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,479 posts, read 6,732,641 times
Reputation: 5883
One problem I see with the fair tax is that in a consumer-driven society it would seriously curtail spending. A large drop in demand could lead to further pressure to cut prices increasing our reliance on cheaper imports or deflationary effects on wages particularily at the lower income levels. This could cause more problems than it fixes.

I personally like a flat tax but perhaps an averaging of the two might work out providing lower taxes for production and modestly higher taxes for consumption.

On a separate note, I don't think that long-term capital gains, interest or dividend income should be taxed at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 07:33 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,707,067 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
One problem I see with the fair tax is that in a consumer-driven society it would seriously curtail spending. A large drop in demand could lead to further pressure to cut prices increasing our reliance on cheaper imports or deflationary effects on wages particularily at the lower income levels. This could cause more problems than it fixes.

I personally like a flat tax but perhaps an averaging of the two might work out providing lower taxes for production and modestly higher taxes for consumption.

On a separate note, I don't think that long-term capital gains, interest or dividend income should be taxed at all.
Why would it curtail spending?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 07:41 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,380,292 times
Reputation: 4013
Well, it does slap a 30% surcharge on top of all spending on new products. Some might see that as a disincentive...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,145,112 times
Reputation: 6549
We could slap a huge tariff on imports just as our trading partners do to us.This would level the playing field just a tad.
The current tax system is top heavy with operating costs etc. We need a more streamlined approach as is used with state and local taxes. This in itself could help leverage the tax rate down.
The problem I have with any new taxes is that the money is always used on other things that the tax wasn't meant for. That .9 on every gallon of gas for example.
We are still paying a tax on the civil war...
I have no issue with consumption taxes provided the money is used for what it was intended.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 07:50 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,707,067 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Well, it does slap a 30% surcharge on top of all spending on new products. Some might see that as a disincentive...
Wow, misinformation regarding the Fair Tax. I'm shocked.

First of all, it's 23%

Second, as it's been pointed out many times, it also reduces the cost of goods by a goodly portion by eliminating all the taxes that used to go into the cost of making said goods. The final result is a wash at the final retail level.

Anyone still making these kinds of claims really, really need to do some reading. Or they are spreading disinformation on purpose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,145,112 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Wow, misinformation regarding the Fair Tax. I'm shocked.

First of all, it's 23%

Second, as it's been pointed out many times, it also reduces the cost of goods by a goodly portion by eliminating all the taxes that used to go into the cost of making said goods. The final result is a wash at the final retail level.

Anyone still making these kinds of claims really, really need to do some reading. Or they are spreading disinformation on purpose.
Jeez you neocons and your anal attention to facts. We need to scare people into thinking they will be taxed more and the rich wont pay any taxes.
We have been working for years now to make this myth believable. Don't ruin it now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 08:03 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,380,292 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The current tax system is top heavy with operating costs etc. We need a more streamlined approach as is used with state and local taxes.
Problem there. Current state and local sales taxes have a penetration rate of about 50%. Some a little more, some a little less. The Fair Tax people assume they can get 100% penetration. If it turns out that they can't beat 50% either, then that 30% surcharge becomes a 60% surcharge in order to maintain an already false claim of revenue neutrality.

And who, by the way, is going to be sending out all those monthly prebate checks to every family in America without any duplicates and without any omissions? Who will keep track of births and deaths? Adoptions? Immigration and emigration? Birthdays? Students studying abroad? Being institutionalized? Simple moves from one address to another? You think the current IRS is expensive and invasive? The Fair Tax IRS will need to know everything about you and every member of your family. The costs of that, well...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,068 posts, read 10,100,232 times
Reputation: 1651
Default Myth?

A 30% tax being a disincentive? Well, OK, let me clear this up.

People are a little confused because they see 23% and 30%. Both are right, but the former is inclusive like the income tax is and the latter is exclusive, like current sales taxes often are.

"Slapping a 30% sales tax" (or 23% exclusive tax) on things is fine with me, because all of the embedded costs are going to disappear -- embedded taxes like corporate taxes, withholding, and so forth. Market forces will move prices down. It's a wash. Actually it may be better since wages won't be decreased.

There will be a decrease in complexity with the FairTax. You'll find this to be interesting reading.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 08:59 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,380,292 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
A 30% tax being a disincentive? Well, OK, let me clear this up.
Actually, I was pretty clear already on the inclusive/exclusive thing. The proposal is for a 30% sales tax, but since polls show that popular support for flat tax schemes starts to fade once the rate moves past the low 20's, they decided to use the 23% inclusive figure instead. Bottom line is still the same. You buy something new that costs $100, you pay $130 for it.

Speaking of new, what do you reckon will happen in real estate markets as between new and existing homes? On a $400K new home, you'd owe a 30% Fair Tax payment, so you'd actually have to pay $520K to buy it. On a $400K used home, you wouldn't pay any Fair Tax at all. At least not until the mortgage kicked in. If you held a $400K mortgage on that used home, not only would your mortgage interest no longer be deductible, but you'd have to toss in an extra $600 per month as the Fair Tax payment on your new purchases of financial services that the interest component of your P&I represents. Worse yet on that new home...your Fair Tax add-on there would start out at $780 per month...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top