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This thread is not about the safety or efficacy of vaccines of which not every aspect has been studied. It is about prosecuting those who refuse vaccines and those who speak out against them. Are you in favor of that? Do you believe that the government should make vaccines mandatory? Do you think people should be jailed for non-compliance? Do you think that people should be jailed for expressing doubts about vaccines?
Obviously she does, but she needs to persuade enough public support to get such tyrannical laws passed.
It's her job.
Last edited by Hyperthetic; 06-01-2014 at 01:31 PM..
Obviously she does, but she needs to persuade enough public support to get such tyrannical laws passed.
It's her job.
If I remember correctly, from another vaccine related thread, she was one of the posters who defended the forced vaccinations that occurred at gunpoint in Malawi, so I'd bet that you are correct.
This thread is not about the safety or efficacy of vaccines of which not every aspect has been studied. It is about prosecuting those who refuse vaccines and those who speak out against them. Are you in favor of that? Do you believe that the government should make vaccines mandatory? Do you think people should be jailed for non-compliance? Do you think that people should be jailed for expressing doubts about vaccines?
You were the one who mentioned safety and efficacy first. The people who actually work with vaccines have definitively shown them to be safe and effective. There is no scientific doubt about it. Anyone who feels that vaccines are not safe and effective is basing his belief on faulty reasoning. Yes, some vaccines are more effective than others. Measles vaccine happens to be nearly 100% effective; flu vaccine is less so, because of the nature of influenza viruses.
Serious reactions to vaccines are extremely rare.
From another discussion forum:
"My 6 year old daughter just came home from her friend's house. She tells me,"G has chicken pox." G, being her friends younger sister, (a very sweet 3 year old girl who follows the girls around like a puppy). My daughter has had her first Varicella vaccination but not her booster yet. My first reaction, after having her wash her hands, is to tell her she can't play at her friends house. This would seem like punishment to my daughter for something she has no control over. I guess I should blame myself for allowing my child to play with the children of people so irresponsible as to not vaccinate them in the first place. Yes, I knew, and submitted to my daughter's desire to play with the only kid her age on the street. What concerns me equally is that we saw their whole family playing at our local pool club yesterday. There are dozens of children too young to be vaccinated at the club right now.
What I want to do is confront the girl's parents, ask them if their girls do have chicken pox, and why they didn't warn me. Instead I have decided to calm down and ask the advice of some clearer minds than my own. Advice?"
What do you think should be the responsibility of the parents who knowingly exposed this poster's daughter and everyone at the swimming pool to chickenpox? What if an exposed child gets sick and needs hospitalization? Dies? How about the loss of income for the parent who has to stay home with an infected child? What if that family had planned a vacation that involved penalties to reschedule it?
Criminal? Probably not. A good case for a civil suit? Probably yes. Preventable? Two doses of varicella vaccine are 88 to 98% effective in preventing chickenpox. So the odds are that if G.'s family vaccinated their children, G. would not have caught chickenpox.
"Doubts" about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines are not based on scientific reality.
You were the one who mentioned safety and efficacy first. The people who actually work with vaccines have definitively shown them to be safe and effective. There is no scientific doubt about it. Anyone who feels that vaccines are not safe and effective is basing his belief on faulty reasoning. Yes, some vaccines are more effective than others. Measles vaccine happens to be nearly 100% effective; flu vaccine is less so, because of the nature of influenza viruses.
Serious reactions to vaccines are extremely rare.
From another discussion forum:
"My 6 year old daughter just came home from her friend's house. She tells me,"G has chicken pox." G, being her friends younger sister, (a very sweet 3 year old girl who follows the girls around like a puppy). My daughter has had her first Varicella vaccination but not her booster yet. My first reaction, after having her wash her hands, is to tell her she can't play at her friends house. This would seem like punishment to my daughter for something she has no control over. I guess I should blame myself for allowing my child to play with the children of people so irresponsible as to not vaccinate them in the first place. Yes, I knew, and submitted to my daughter's desire to play with the only kid her age on the street. What concerns me equally is that we saw their whole family playing at our local pool club yesterday. There are dozens of children too young to be vaccinated at the club right now.
What I want to do is confront the girl's parents, ask them if their girls do have chicken pox, and why they didn't warn me. Instead I have decided to calm down and ask the advice of some clearer minds than my own. Advice?"
What do you think should be the responsibility of the parents who knowingly exposed this poster's daughter and everyone at the swimming pool to chickenpox? What if an exposed child gets sick and needs hospitalization? Dies? How about the loss of income for the parent who has to stay home with an infected child? What if that family had planned a vacation that involved penalties to reschedule it?
Criminal? Probably not. A good case for a civil suit? Probably yes. Preventable? Two doses of varicella vaccine are 88 to 98% effective in preventing chickenpox. So the odds are that if G.'s family vaccinated their children, G. would not have caught chickenpox.
"Doubts" about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines are not based on scientific reality.
Which forum are you copying and pasting discussions from??? I don't believe this is a real story. It doesn't seem like a likely scenario.
The parents of the child who had chicken pox should have told the friend's parents that their child had chicken pox before allowing the kids to play together. The parents of the child with chicken pox should not have brought their contagious child to the pool. I'd say the same thing if we were talking about strep throat or the flu or a stomach bug. This has nothing to do with vaccinating, it has to do with parents who are completely clueless. I have no reason to believe that this really happened.
A civil suit? For chicken pox? That would be an interesting case to bring to court. Could you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your child caught chicken pox from the friend. Could you prove harm? You would sue your friends over chicken pox??? What if the child with the chicken pox had been vaccinated but the vaccine did not work? Would you still sue?
When I was a kid, one of my neighbor friends caught the chicken pox. All of the parents in the neighborhood made sure that all of the neighborhood kids spent a lot of time playing together so that we would all catch it. I remember them filling up our kiddie pool and setting it up under the slide. We had a blast. We all caught the chicken pox and we continued to have a blast all summer long. I recall being itchy but otherwise it didn't slow any of us down for a second.
This thread is not about the safety or efficacy of vaccines of which not every aspect has been studied. It is about prosecuting those who refuse vaccines and those who speak out against them. Are you in favor of that? Do you believe that the government should make vaccines mandatory? Do you think people should be jailed for non-compliance? Do you think that people should be jailed for expressing doubts about vaccines?
Yes, they should be jailed for refusing to be vaccinated. If one believes the purpose of criminal punishment is to deter or protect the public, then it would be far more justified than jailing people for drug offenses or even petty theft. Threatening herd immunity has the potential of causing thousands of deaths and allowing previously contained diseases to mutate and undermine already existing inoculations.
This is not a hypothetical threat, but a certainty if enough people refuse vaccines for long enough, and again, it's not just the individual child, but whole communities, regions, and nations that are at stake.
Yes, they should be jailed for refusing to be vaccinated. If one believes the purpose of criminal punishment is to deter or protect the public, then it would be far more justified than jailing people for drug offenses or even petty theft. Threatening herd immunity has the potential of causing thousands of deaths and allowing previously contained diseases to mutate and undermine already existing inoculations.
This is not a hypothetical threat, but a certainty if enough people refuse vaccines for long enough, and again, it's not just the individual child, but whole communities, regions, and nations that are at stake.
Hey, just get yourself genetically modified to resist all diseases.
Give Monsanto a call now.
I've already been modified to resist disease, by about a million years of evolution.
I think the whole anti-vaccine frenzy shows that there is no one political party or ideology that holds exclusive rights to being "anti-science" People generally support science until it goes contrary to their personal or political views. Global warming, GMO's, vaccinations...etc, all things that people seem to oppose established scientific data on for strictly ideological purposes.
I see while I was off celebrating my birthday with a trip up to Rocky Mountain National Park, this thread carried on!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Vaccines would not be so controversial if their were no questions surrounding their efficacy and safety. The choice to "go and live in a bubble" is available to everyone. I'm not living in fear though so I'm not going to make that choice.
Are you in favor of locking people up for not getting vaccinated? Are you in favor of forcing people to get vaccinated against their will?
As suzy_q2010 said, vaccine safety has been thoroughly studied. The only people who have questions about vaccine safety are the people who are looking for excuses not to vaccinate in the first place. This thread was started due to concerns about the 288 cases of measles this year in the US, 30% more than the number of cases in 2011, and the year isn't even half over yet! Measles vaccine has been around in its present form for 50 years. That is not a typo. Not 5 years, not even 10 or 20, 50. 5-0. Fifty. I couldn't even give you an estimate of how many doses of measles vaccine have been given, worldwide in the last 50 years. If there were all these horrible side effects and adverse events happening, we'd know about it by now. It's only been in the last 15 years or so, since that quack Wakefield did his bogus "study" that people have had such issues with measles vaccine.
No, I am not in favor of such measures and have never advocated them. I find the question insulting. You do know, of course, that years ago, people with mealses were quarantined and a sign was put in the front window of their house, to warn off others, don't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
This thread is not about the safety or efficacy of vaccines of which not every aspect has been studied. It is about prosecuting those who refuse vaccines and those who speak out against them. Are you in favor of that? Do you believe that the government should make vaccines mandatory? Do you think people should be jailed for non-compliance? Do you think that people should be jailed for expressing doubts about vaccines?
Well, you brought it up, in the post above. See my response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
If I remember correctly, from another vaccine related thread, she was one of the posters who defended the forced vaccinations that occurred at gunpoint in Malawi, so I'd bet that you are correct.
I remember no such thing. Maybe you can find said post. Oh the other hand, don't bother. That's insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Which forum are you copying and pasting discussions from??? I don't believe this is a real story. It doesn't seem like a likely scenario.
The parents of the child who had chicken pox should have told the friend's parents that their child had chicken pox before allowing the kids to play together. The parents of the child with chicken pox should not have brought their contagious child to the pool. I'd say the same thing if we were talking about strep throat or the flu or a stomach bug. This has nothing to do with vaccinating, it has to do with parents who are completely clueless. I have no reason to believe that this really happened.
A civil suit? For chicken pox? That would be an interesting case to bring to court. Could you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your child caught chicken pox from the friend. Could you prove harm? You would sue your friends over chicken pox??? What if the child with the chicken pox had been vaccinated but the vaccine did not work? Would you still sue?
When I was a kid, one of my neighbor friends caught the chicken pox. All of the parents in the neighborhood made sure that all of the neighborhood kids spent a lot of time playing together so that we would all catch it. I remember them filling up our kiddie pool and setting it up under the slide. We had a blast. We all caught the chicken pox and we continued to have a blast all summer long. I recall being itchy but otherwise it didn't slow any of us down for a second.
I remember the exact words that suzy_q2010 quoted from a while back.
"Chickenpox parties" were popular before the vaccine, and still are, I hear tell. Do you live in Evergreen? I heard of one there recently. They are not a bright idea and I don't think most docs even back in my childhood would have recommended them. Virtually 100% of kids got chickenpox in the pre-vaccine era, save for a few outliers, there was no need to deliberately infect your kids. Some people get pretty sick from chickenpox; my kids both did. And there are some deaths from chickenpox disease, including that one at Denver Children's Hospital that got the docs in this area (your area, Terri) on board with the vaccine.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 06-01-2014 at 05:29 PM..
That is not the loophole that needs to be closed. Few religions oppose immunization. It is the "personal belief" loophole that needs to be closed. 93% of the exemptions in Colorado are "personal belief". (Link above)
This. The whole concept of vaccines works on "herd immunity." If the "herd" is not immunized, now you're creating disease reservoirs which give diseases a chance to do what they do best, adapt and mutate until those who have been vaccinated are now no longer offered protection under those original vaccinations. It isn't harmless and society as a whole needs to take a stronger stand on these things. Unless they stay on their own land and never interact with anyone else, a person's "private business" does in fact effect others.
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