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Old 06-01-2014, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,975,748 times
Reputation: 14180

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
You left out a very important part.......

A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

One could also argue that since the amendment is so specific, the wording is "The People" and not "A person"

To make your argument foolproof, it would have had to say, "The right of a person to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Since at that time the individual states were considered 'the people" and the federal government was considered an entity, the 2nd, as written could have very well meant that the militias in the individual states were the rightful bearer of arms.

If the founders had actually meant an individual had a right, then the wording would have explicitly stated that The right of a person(individual), rather than the right of the people(collective).

I believe in the individual right of the second but just playing devil's advocate here. I find it wearisome that the "Shall not be infringed" crowd keep isolating that phrase from the complete text as if that's the only words that matter. All the words matter in the 2nd. And the true meaning is not as clear as many would try and peddle to the public.
I just gave you a very reasonable alternate meaning of the exact same wording.
The meaning of the word "militia" is actually well defined in law. Go to Title 10, United States Code and look it up.
Then, just for fun, go to the Constitution of each State or Commonwealth and look up the Right To Keep And Bear Arms. Here in Montana, it is in Article II, Section 12. It says nothing abut the "militia".
What does YOUR State or Commonwealth Constitution say about it? If you have never read it, perhaps you should!
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:22 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,344,316 times
Reputation: 11538
I am in Michigan.....we have a few very strong militias.

The people around here have one.....we meet at least once a month.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:43 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,160 posts, read 15,628,539 times
Reputation: 17150
It occurs to me that mireing ourselves in the past in this debate is counterproductive. We all know, full well, what the framers intended in the right to personal arms, and why. In context to our lives today, is where we need to look. Some argue we ha e processed beyond the need for personal arms and they have no place in our "modern and enlightened" society. Wishful thinking. The things we must defend against have changed, the need for arms has not.

Instead of fighting wars against foreign troops on our soil, or against native tribes, we now have a criminal element that makes the frontier look tame. Drug cartels, street gangs funded and armed by these, individual a d smaller groups of predators, strung out on the product these vermin peddle and all armed and vicious. They have taken over huge tracts of our cities and countryside. They prowl about in decked out SUVs armed to the teeth with heavy hitting stuff. Oh, there IS a need for arms. As much now as ever.

But the focus is on the people. Not the enemy. Laws bind us and restrict our access to arms, or even punish us for having them. Common sense? I don't think so.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,828,984 times
Reputation: 7801
Add knives to that would ya pleez. California legislators need to be drug tested in order to remain in office.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:09 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post

My argument was that true conservatives who believe in originalism and State's Rights should find "incorporation" repugnant and illegal and should therefore support California's right to legislate firearms as it sees fit.
Why should I find my individual rights which trump any form of government repugnant? Your argument is lame, this isn't a federal vs. state issue. It's an individual issue and it doesn't get any more local than that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
5,735 posts, read 3,252,971 times
Reputation: 3147
always knee jerk reactionaries come up with these bills.
They never want to address the real issues.

Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, And It Isn't Weapons - Liberty Crier
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