Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1. Parents forcing you to do whatever they said was immoral? How so, a smack on the bottom when you ran out into the street after being told innumerable times not to do so?
Brother; a social contract with your children who are too young to give a rat's patoot about what it is you're trying to accomplish, much less give a rats patoot over the consequences if they do not comply. Most children I've experienced will listen intently and go about whatever it is they want to do, unless the consequences are immediate with severity in direct relation to the nature of the transgression. A punishment later for a misbehaviour now is a non-starter right out of the gate.
I'd be very interested to know how this "negotiating" with your children works out for you.
2. We're not talking about what it is they're obligated to do when faced with someone needing care; we're discussing under what conditions they're allowed to refuse treatment. Those are defined.
3. Majority does matter as it is this body that makes the bulk of the rules a civilized society uses to conduct and govern themselves, like it or not. The majority supported Hitler while he was being dishonest in promising them they'd be the new world order. He lied, he failed, he killed himself rather than face that same majority to explain his failure. They would have judged him harshly.
4. How about capital punishment then?
The organizations that resolve any dispute are given mandates enforced via the will of the majority through some sort of punitive action. It has ever been thus; actions have consequences. Bad behaviour results in bad things happening to the transgressor. Were it not so, chaos would rule.
1. I'm very against spanking. Not just morally, but practically. It's been shown to decrease IQ by a few points and cause other issues. As I said earlier, I didn't think that way until fairly recently, but the more I've looked into it and listened to talks about it the more I've become convinced that hitting is not the way to go. With your second paragraph...I can't find the specific video(s) but Stefan Molyneux has shared experiences with raising his daughter (now 5? years old I believe) and it has been working very well. He has a video called Intro to Peaceful Parenting on youtube...a bit long but it's there if you're interested.
2. To clarify, you're talking about what's defined or allowed by law? I don't think the law has anything to do with morality, so it doesn't matter to me what the law says. If it's immoral, it shouldn't be done, in my opinion.
3. That's exactly what I'm against. Just because the majority decides something is ok doesn't make it ok (ex: slavery). There are things that are universally immoral, and no person or group of people can change that. It's always wrong to walk up to a random person minding their own business and stab them with a knife. If the majority was somehow convinced that it was moral to do that and got a law passed that allowed that behavior, it would still be wrong. I would argue against the majority and against the law in that situation.
"Government is an opinion with a gun." Everyone thinks they know what's best for other people, and they want to use government as a tool to force others to adhere to their opinion. Do you want Republicans using government to force you to follow their idea of how things should be run? They feel the same way towards Democrats doing that to them. I feel the same way about anyone doing that to me. I feel the same way about doing that to anyone else. I'm not arrogant enough to believe I know what's best for you or the rest of the country/world, and I hope you feel the same way in return.
4. Yes, I'm also 100% against capital punishment.
I agree with you that there need to be consequences for bad behavior in order to prevent "chaos". If I use the DRO (dispute resolution organization) example, the organization would exist to protect against anyone who wants to violate the rights of others (theft, murder, fraud, etc. etc.). From my understanding, people could pay into it as they do with insurance and in the case that someone steals their car, they will be reimbursed for it and the DRO will work with other DROs to figure out who the thief was and lock his accounts (can't pay for food, gas, etc. until his name is cleared). It's more complicated than that so I won't go into all the details of it - I'm sure you're skeptical - but there are ideas out there for how it could legitimately work, and as I said earlier, you never know what people will come up with in the future.
That's why I placed it in quote. We have decided to functionally make it a RIGHT. Semantics noted.
No, as I said earlier, ER's stabilize enough to see if the patient can pay for further services. If not, the hospital is not under any obligation to provide further services.
Originally Posted by EricS39 We do have a right to healthcare. You don't have your health, you don't have the pursuit of happiness, a need higher on the pyramid than health with obviously a right to safety set in by the mere fact there's 911 responders, firefighters, parametics, ambulance, and police. Higher but still below pursuit of happiness is heaith
And in the Preamble to the US Constitution this is expressed in "promote the general welfare"
You do have a right to health care.....................as long as you pay for it.
1. I'm very against spanking. Not just morally, but practically. It's been shown to decrease IQ by a few points and cause other issues. As I said earlier, I didn't think that way until fairly recently, but the more I've looked into it and listened to talks about it the more I've become convinced that hitting is not the way to go. With your second paragraph...I can't find the specific video(s) but Stefan Molyneux has shared experiences with raising his daughter (now 5? years old I believe) and it has been working very well. He has a video called Intro to Peaceful Parenting on youtube...a bit long but it's there if you're interested.
2. To clarify, you're talking about what's defined or allowed by law? I don't think the law has anything to do with morality, so it doesn't matter to me what the law says. If it's immoral, it shouldn't be done, in my opinion.
3. That's exactly what I'm against. Just because the majority decides something is ok doesn't make it ok (ex: slavery). There are things that are universally immoral, and no person or group of people can change that. It's always wrong to walk up to a random person minding their own business and stab them with a knife. If the majority was somehow convinced that it was moral to do that and got a law passed that allowed that behavior, it would still be wrong. I would argue against the majority and against the law in that situation.
"Government is an opinion with a gun." Everyone thinks they know what's best for other people, and they want to use government as a tool to force others to adhere to their opinion. Do you want Republicans using government to force you to follow their idea of how things should be run? They feel the same way towards Democrats doing that to them. I feel the same way about anyone doing that to me. I feel the same way about doing that to anyone else. I'm not arrogant enough to believe I know what's best for you or the rest of the country/world, and I hope you feel the same way in return.
4. Yes, I'm also 100% against capital punishment.
I agree with you that there need to be consequences for bad behavior in order to prevent "chaos". If I use the DRO (dispute resolution organization) example, the organization would exist to protect against anyone who wants to violate the rights of others (theft, murder, fraud, etc. etc.). From my understanding, people could pay into it as they do with insurance and in the case that someone steals their car, they will be reimbursed for it and the DRO will work with other DROs to figure out who the thief was and lock his accounts (can't pay for food, gas, etc. until his name is cleared). It's more complicated than that so I won't go into all the details of it - I'm sure you're skeptical - but there are ideas out there for how it could legitimately work, and as I said earlier, you never know what people will come up with in the future.
I'm skeptical but also have an open mind towards ideas yet untried; that's called progress. I'm too old to look forward to any measurable degree of that in my remaining lifetime but still hope it happens for those following.
No, as I said earlier, ER's stabilize enough to see if the patient can pay for further services. If not, the hospital is not under any obligation to provide further services.
Not a right.
This is generally not true in real life. But it could happen.
Aside from the professional ethical problems, there are serious malpractice and other notoriety/financial risks involved both for the involved docs and the hospital. So this scenario rarely happens, especially since EMTALA.
Any person in the USA has a RIGHT to emergency medical care if available. No payment required!
All this "right" bull can be easily defined.
You can declare all the rights to whatever you wish, but there is one way to define the real rights of the citizens of the USA and that is to declare "constitutional rights" separate from all the rest of whatever people want to claim as a right.
As for the bull about "no spanking" and IQ's being lowered, absolutely the worst declaration I've heard in nearly 80 years on the subject of parenting. Spanked children produced Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, Henry Ford and the many brilliant people who made the American advances in inventions. Wow! I will state Dr. Spock as an example of someone who brainwashed parents of the 40's and created the monster generation of the drug/free sex/no discipline 60's. We have never recovered. If you want to raise out-of-control kids that never having received discipline have no idea of how to self-discipline when they mature then just follow the lead of this unknowledgeably person to whom you refer. Kids that are never disciplined for wrong doing never learn the difference between right and wrong. Could go on and on here as to why we are seeing all the killings and violence in youngsters today, but would take up too much space on a thread created for a different discussion.
Now, back to the "right to health care" discussion.
I'm skeptical but also have an open mind towards ideas yet untried; that's called progress. I'm too old to look forward to any measurable degree of that in my remaining lifetime but still hope it happens for those following.
Well, being myself a Canadian, I have a right to universal no pay healthcare. Those of you who are Americans have a right to die if you get sick and have no money.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
