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Old 06-10-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,741,572 times
Reputation: 1531

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Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
Wouldnt paying more taxes lower the deficit and benefit all the Tea Party types that are dependent on Medicare, Tricare, VA, SS, Military Pensions, disability checks, etc? Not only that but more taxes means more money for the military.
That money will never be used to pay down the debt, just used to bride voters into voting for the ruling class in order to get some of their own money back..
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:28 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
Reputation: 18304
One only has to look at tax amounts and deficits to see that hasn't worked. Perhaps its because those who support tax increases only want to tax the rich while getting ever more support for themselves. Too few supporting too many is the Greek solution .That we see the end result of in time. Since Clinton the military budget has remained at about 4%.Most remember the so called peace dividend which we quickly spend more than saved on other programs.T he military is now making preparation to cut even more .Remember wars are not in the Military budget but special appropriations congress passes.From military to public programs cuts are coming one way or the other is reality.By the way VA is second largest item on budget and this year the VA asked to carry over 1 billon dollars to spend to next year;so that isn't the problem. I agree with McCain IN 2008 presidential election. He said after fighting the problem for decades he proposed issuing veterans cards to be used at local healthcare providers. Military is preparing cuts and its agreed to cuts. Now we are likely to see same who support cuts as always want not to cut military spending in their district/state or programs military sees has ones to cut. Let the military decide where to best cut. I say those who support more taxes agree to raise theirs ;not someone else.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:57 PM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK78 View Post
60% of the jobs in this country pay $20.00 or less an hour. That was incredible to me because that's about enough, $41,600, on the highest end of the scale for one person to survive independently with a little left over for saving for retirement/401K. Add in student loans, gas, car costs, rent, medical, dental etc... and you'd be lucky to take an occasional vacation.
I'm not denying the problem of an increase in low paying jobs. But I'm calling BS on your statement here. I live in the high cost SF Bay Area and I made about 47K (gross) last year and still managed a savings rate of about 28% (estimate on the conservative side).

Others are saying similar things...Jacob at Early Retirement Extreme also lives in the high cost SF Bay Area on little money.

www.earlyretirementextreme.com

Mr. Money Mustache lives in Colorado and spends just over 25K per year (with a wife & kid). Granted his house is paid for. (He posts his annual spending by category on his blog). And besides all that, his blog is quite entertaining to read.

www.mrmoneymustache.com

According to Federal Reserve data, it turns out that even the top 10% earners only save about 12% of their income. That's pretty pathetic, IMO. We've totally abandoned frugality as a culture at every income level. Back in the 1970s, the top 10% earners were saving ~25% of their income.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/the-...-wealth-class/

People need to radically rethink what passes for the standard American lifestyle, because it's making us broke, unhappy, and unhealthy.


This includes:

--Not having kids out of wedlock. (41% of kids today are born out of wedlock and the research, even from liberal think tanks, is pretty overwhelming that this arrangement is rarely a healthy thing for anyone)

20 years later, it turns out Dan Quayle was right about Murphy Brown and unmarried moms - The Washington Post

--Putting more weight on Marrying for practical reasons and less emphasis on love/attraction (Not saying those things don't matter, but they need to be taken down a notch or two). Paying attention to character/frugality as important traits in a mate (since the #1 reason people divorce is fighting about money)

If you look at the history of marriage, anytime you see a conservative culture of arranged marriage being replaced by a more liberal culture of romantic marriage ... you will see divorce rates start to rise immediately.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/01/05...marriage.book/

--Avoiding divorce like the plague, especially if kids are involved (as it's an income/wealth killer)

--Accepting that you probably have to live at least one step "below" where you think you should be as far as housing goes. (i.e. sharing housing instead of having your own place, living in a studio instead of a 1BR, etc.)

--Living closer to work and avoiding marathon commuting like the plague. It turns out marathon commuting contributes to obesity and higher divorce rates, amongst other ills. Drive the smaller, more fuel efficient car, not the gas guzzling SUV.

Long commutes cause obesity, neck pain, loneliness, divorce, stress, and insomnia.


--Focus on eating truly healthy & nutritious food (and there are plenty of web sites that show how to do this on a budget for those who are truly interested). Going light on meat & processed foods makes diabetes, heart disease, & high blood pressure go away, and drastically reduces health care costs.

Forks Over Knives | Official Website


If we start turning these things around, the jobs thing will start to take care of itself because we will have fewer people who need jobs in the first place, which will drive up wages for those who still do need them.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 06-11-2014 at 12:16 AM..
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:46 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post

If we start turning these things around, the jobs thing will start to take care of itself because we will have fewer people who need jobs in the first place, which will drive up wages for those who still do need them.
This is something the left refuses to see. It's a simple concept really.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:37 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,198,821 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I'm not denying the problem of an increase in low paying jobs. But I'm calling BS on your statement here. I live in the high cost SF Bay Area and I made about 47K (gross) last year and still managed a savings rate of about 28% (estimate on the conservative side).

Others are saying similar things...Jacob at Early Retirement Extreme also lives in the high cost SF Bay Area on little money.

www.earlyretirementextreme.com

Mr. Money Mustache lives in Colorado and spends just over 25K per year (with a wife & kid). Granted his house is paid for. (He posts his annual spending by category on his blog). And besides all that, his blog is quite entertaining to read.

Mr. Money Mustache — Early Retirement through Badassity

According to Federal Reserve data, it turns out that even the top 10% earners only save about 12% of their income. That's pretty pathetic, IMO. We've totally abandoned frugality as a culture at every income level. Back in the 1970s, the top 10% earners were saving ~25% of their income.

The Average Savings Rates By Income (Wealth Class) | Financial Samurai

People need to radically rethink what passes for the standard American lifestyle, because it's making us broke, unhappy, and unhealthy.


This includes:

--Not having kids out of wedlock. (41% of kids today are born out of wedlock and the research, even from liberal think tanks, is pretty overwhelming that this arrangement is rarely a healthy thing for anyone)

20 years later, it turns out Dan Quayle was right about Murphy Brown and unmarried moms - The Washington Post

--Putting more weight on Marrying for practical reasons and less emphasis on love/attraction (Not saying those things don't matter, but they need to be taken down a notch or two). Paying attention to character/frugality as important traits in a mate (since the #1 reason people divorce is fighting about money)

If you look at the history of marriage, anytime you see a conservative culture of arranged marriage being replaced by a more liberal culture of romantic marriage ... you will see divorce rates start to rise immediately.

'Eat, Pray, Love' author tackles marriage - CNN.com

--Avoiding divorce like the plague, especially if kids are involved (as it's an income/wealth killer)

--Accepting that you probably have to live at least one step "below" where you think you should be as far as housing goes. (i.e. sharing housing instead of having your own place, living in a studio instead of a 1BR, etc.)

--Living closer to work and avoiding marathon commuting like the plague. It turns out marathon commuting contributes to obesity and higher divorce rates, amongst other ills. Drive the smaller, more fuel efficient car, not the gas guzzling SUV.

Long commutes cause obesity, neck pain, loneliness, divorce, stress, and insomnia.


--Focus on eating truly healthy & nutritious food (and there are plenty of web sites that show how to do this on a budget for those who are truly interested). Going light on meat & processed foods makes diabetes, heart disease, & high blood pressure go away, and drastically reduces health care costs.

Forks Over Knives | Official Website


If we start turning these things around, the jobs thing will start to take care of itself because we will have fewer people who need jobs in the first place, which will drive up wages for those who still do need them.
I do agree with many of these points, but how do these things lead to fewer people needing jobs, and increasing wages?
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,420,711 times
Reputation: 55562
They said that in 84 when I bought my first house in sf when I was a clerk and wife was a housekeeper 20% down
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:42 PM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
I do agree with many of these points, but how do these things lead to fewer people needing jobs, and increasing wages?
Supply and demand, and competition. Decrease supply (of workers) employers will be forced to pay higher wages. Think about it.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:55 PM
 
1,637 posts, read 1,881,160 times
Reputation: 1240
The American dream is alive and well. My neighbor came here from India and worked two jobs when he went to college. He is now worth north of a million bucks. The American dream is dead for those who are lazy and arent willing to relocate for work.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:08 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,368,360 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Supply and demand, and competition. Decrease supply (of workers) employers will be forced to pay higher wages. Think about it.
Hmmmm..fair enough. So really we're talking about a solution for the next generation right? In the meantime lets look at some things.

In 2011 we had 1.89 births per woman. We ARE having less people. In 1960 it was 3.65...and yet in 2010 we gained 3 million people. Wait...what? Legal immigrants. Notice im talking legal ones, not illegals. We currently have over 40 million legal ones either naturalized, or on work visas etc.

So really the solution is to stop allowing immigrants legal or otherwise right?

Now my first reaction is....thats dumb, with a decreasing population we will end up being the next Japan. Its a horrible idea. Except....I suspect with more opportunities our birth rate might go up again.

But...then I recognize another issue. The supply side of employees is going to really start getting larger as we replace people. As a software engineer im pretty safe for a while, but not forever. As AI gets better, and the ability of more generic robots expands-something google is working on heavily, we're going to see the end of employment for a massive number of people.

We are going to live in interesting times.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:39 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,198,821 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Supply and demand, and competition. Decrease supply (of workers) employers will be forced to pay higher wages. Think about it.
Saving more, less divorce, healthy food, and shorter commutes do not lead to decreased supply of workers!
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