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When the train has been speeding for the missing bridge and a thousand foot precipice, and a new engineer takes the controls, but rather than applying brake, he pushes the accelerator lever, is that to be feted or derided?
So Chomsky finally woke up. At least he has, even if it is twenty-five years too late.
In the case proposed, the situation is to be seen as it is, with all parties to blame. Chomsky acts as if the loss of liberty happened on Obama's watch. Where was he since the Patriot Act was put into effect? And if he is opposed to it, he could at least be honest and blast the whole thing, not just Obama for continuing it.
In the case proposed, the situation is to be seen as it is, with all parties to blame. Chomsky acts as if the loss of liberty happened on Obama's watch. Where was he since the Patriot Act was put into effect? And if he is opposed to it, he could at least be honest and blast the whole thing, not just Obama for continuing it.
Please stop being dishonest in all these threads. I agree some Republicans ignored the atrocities of Bush only to protest them under Obama-but you are just as bad by revising Chomsky's actual views and opinions. There are some people that are intelligent AND have a strong moral compass and backbone. Chomsky is unwavering in his opinions-something you appear not to be.
It seems you are against these gestapo policies-but are somehow able to justify them because "they weren't opposed or talked about as much right after 9/11".
It's so sad and pathetic that the most intelligent people in our society are continuously ignored or mocked while we listen to political/media psychopaths and morons.
These are actual quotes. I'm sure I can find hundreds and hundreds more from 2002-2008.
From 2003
Does the US Intend to Dominate the Whole World by Force, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Andy Clark
Very few are well aware of what's going on. The Patriot Act, and the new, planned Patriot 2 Act, it is true, undermine - in principle at least, in words, and partially in actions - fundamental civil liberties to a remarkable extent. So, the current justice department has claimed the right to arrest people, including American citizens, put them in confinement indefinitely, without charge, without access to lawyers and families, until the president declares that the war on terror is over. They have even gone beyond that. The new plans include plans to actually take away citizenship if the attorney general decides to do so. This has been very harshly condemned by civil rights lawyers, law professors, others, but very little of it leaks into the media. It's not really well-known. These moves are quite dramatic.
That is yet another brazen affirmation of executive power. There are many others. There is little doubt that this administration is at an extreme in seeking to establish a powerful state executive, free from interference by Congress or public awareness of its actions. The justification is the "war on terror," but that can hardly be taken seriously. Terror is doubtless a very serious threat, but it is all to easy to demonstrate that it does not rank high in administration priorities.
Please stop being dishonest in all these threads. I agree some Republicans ignored the atrocities of Bush only to protest them under Obama-but you are just as bad by revising Chomsky's actual views and opinions. There are some people that are intelligent AND have a strong moral compass and backbone. Chomsky is unwavering in his opinions-something you appear not to be.
It seems you are against these gestapo policies-but are somehow able to justify them because "they weren't opposed or talked about as much right after 9/11".
Thanks for grossly misrepresenting what I said and completely ignoring what I've basically written everyone on every thread.
Let me make my beliefs clear for you again:
- Few people, if any, in power truly care about America or the people in this nation, particularly the working class. Nearly all of them are bought and paid for stooges of big-moneyed interests.
- Our liberties are being crushed by both parties.
- The future looks bleak as long as all this continues.
I think that makes it clear enough, and I'm fine if somebody wants to bash the current administration for continuing the policies of the previous ones, which are often pig-headed and wrong.
What I am NOT fine with is the laughable partisan nonsense that tries to reduce politics to a football game, where so many people - almost always on the far-right around here - attempt to rewrite history to excuse their party from every sin while blaming every bad decision and rotten event of the past 30+ years on "Obama" or "liberals."
Is Obama half-baked and continuing a lot of bad decisions made by previous leaders? Yes. Will re-electing people from the same party - the Republicans - that instituted the Patriot Act fix the problem? Get real... of course not! And yet, that's what I am expected to believe with all the "WHAAAAA!!! Obama's the one who started getting rid of our freedoms!" threads around here. It is a complete joke and plays right into the hands of those who want to remove our freedom entirely.
The thing about Chomsky is that he is further to the left than Obama (who on a world wide political spectrum lands only somewhere just to the right of the center).
Thanks for grossly misrepresenting what I said and completely ignoring what I've basically written everyone on every thread.
Let me make my beliefs clear for you again:
- Few people, if any, in power truly care about America or the people in this nation, particularly the working class. Nearly all of them are bought and paid for stooges of big-moneyed interests.
- Our liberties are being crushed by both parties.
- The future looks bleak as long as all this continues.
I think that makes it clear enough, and I'm fine if somebody wants to bash the current administration for continuing the policies of the previous ones, which are often pig-headed and wrong.
What I am NOT fine with is the laughable partisan nonsense that tries to reduce politics to a football game, where so many people - almost always on the far-right around here - attempt to rewrite history to excuse their party from every sin while blaming every bad decision and rotten event of the past 30+ years on "Obama" or "liberals."
Is Obama half-baked and continuing a lot of bad decisions made by previous leaders? Yes. Will re-electing people from the same party - the Republicans - that instituted the Patriot Act fix the problem? Get real... of course not! And yet, that's what I am expected to believe with all the "WHAAAAA!!! Obama's the one who started getting rid of our freedoms!" threads around here. It is a complete joke and plays right into the hands of those who want to remove our freedom entirely.
So we are in agreement. You seemed to be insinuating earlier that Chomsky was one of the many partisan hacks that is intellectually dishonest about these things; I wanted to make it clear that he most certainly isn't. He needs to be listened to much more...
The thing about Chomsky is that he is further to the left than Obama (who on a world wide political spectrum lands only somewhere just to the right of the center).
I don't think so. He does not share views with the typical progressive statist in general. If you really read his philosophies (I've read some), he's all over the map on what we call the conservative-liberal spectrum. He certainly has his own views and really doesn't share completely with any particular right-left spectrum group. His views on the individual and individual liberty are certainly Libertarian. He is not at all a collectivist in that regard. Yet, on the other hand, his views on personal property are far removed from the Libertarian ideal. I think the term "socialist libertarianism" fits his views fairly well, although that term in itself would seem a contradiction to most people.
So, he is not in general to the left of Obama. He is on certain points. On other points he is about as far right as he can get from Obama.
I'm pretty much a libertarian in a practical sense and nearly anarchist in philosophy, and I'm interested in further studying his views. I find them fascinating and strangely divergent. If I thought for a second that he was a big-time progressive, statist, collectivist, liberal, I'd throw what I have of his works in the trash, dowse them with petrol, and set them ablaze.
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You seemed to be insinuating earlier that Chomsky was one of the many partisan hacks that is intellectually dishonest about these things; I wanted to make it clear that he most certainly isn't. He needs to be listened to much more...
