Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Non of this warming can have anything to do with the suns output. I mean, in the words of Hillary Clinton, may peace be upon her, what difference does it make?
You know, if you had read the pages you linked to before posting, your foot wouldn't be so firmly planted in your mouth....By the way neither Mars nor Jupiter are warming, and the reasons for warming on the others is explained...It's not the sun.
Pffft... Trust me - I know more about the Maunder Minimum, solar cycles, and other such things than the deniers. Astronomy is a hobby of mine, but thanks for the insults - that really helps your point.
What IS your point, anyway? Because the climate changes on its own humanity can't possibly affect it? You DO realize the insane lack of logic in that statement, right? It's no different than "forest fires can start on their own, so humanity can't cause forest fires."
Yes, the climate changes on its own - nobody is denying that. But it is folly to pretend that humanity CAN'T change it, as the science proves, AND that we should do nothing to prepare for climate change, regardless of who exactly is causing it. Or shall we bury our head in the sand and then be "surprised" when the oil runs out, droughts and storms sweep the land, and millions die needlessly?
Anyone who thinks humanity CAN'T change the climate to a level that has effects must also think the Dust Bowl didn't happen, deforestation is impossible, etc.
So on the one hand you do believe that nature can create forest fires, and then on the other hand you think all forest fires since the 1850s are now created by humans. Of course I'm referring to climate change, I'm just using your forest fire analogy.
Humans did not cause the winds and droughts that gave us the dust bowl, humans just plowed over the drought resistant prairie grass.
There is a difference between understanding that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and trying to blame CO2 for any and all warming, and creating an alarmist view which predicts a catastrophic climate outcome, leading to the destruction of the planet, and using this to empower government to further control every aspect of human life.
You know, if you had read the pages you linked to before posting, your foot wouldn't be so firmly planted in your mouth....By the way neither Mars nor Jupiter are warming, and the reasons for warming on the others is explained...It's not the sun.
No no, it's obvious to me now. That Pluto has seasons proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that global warming is a hoax.
MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.
FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, warming to 1941, cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through 2011. The warming rate from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous warming from 1911 to 1941. Satellites, weather balloons and ground stations all show cooling since 2001. The mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8 C over the 20th century is well within the natural variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use effects"). Two science teams have shown that correcting the surface temperature record for the effects of urban development would reduce the reported warming trend over land from 1980 by half.
...if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story. Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told' - Telegraph
The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on "going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world".
--------
I believe there is a global climate change, but I also believe realistic facts. The AGW alarmists like Gore, and those Climategate emails, have tarnished their case, making them the biggest detriment to civil discussion.
Man has certainly added plenty of gases into the air over the last two centuries, however to lay all the blame on man for climate change is ridiculous.
I'd like to know what, if anything, man can actually do to cool the planet. Answer that, reasonably, and we'll have something worth a discussion.
You toss around the word "myth" as if merely stating it debunks the scientific consensus. You haven't earned the right to do that, nor has Monckton, Limbaugh and all the other parrots of denial.
On your point about the Great Lakes, the reason they froze so hard was due to the polar vortex, which was not "extra" cold in the global system, rather a disruption of the normal flow around the Arctic. Overall, Great Lakes ice has been declining. This year was a fluke, though it may become more normal if the vortex is permanently destabilized. But it has nothing to do with the total heat balance of the planet. It's just one region. 90% of AGW heat is being stored in the oceans and fluctuations in the atmosphere are much less predictable.
Note: That photo of beach tanners with ice looks faked for sensationalism (not that the ice wasn't there in general). The waterline is too abrupt and the ice looks like it was cropped out of a larger scene. Too low-resolution to be sure.
Toward the end you write classic soft-denial, where you agree that the climate is changing yet remain vague about it (see Merchants of Doubt). In fact, the whole point of your post was to promulgate more doubt and keep uneducated people ignorant. That's the easy way out for those who are probably smart enough to see their own bull but are more interested in complaining about reg-you-lay-shuns than the future of the world as we know it.
Note: That photo of beach tanners with ice looks faked for sensationalism (not that the ice wasn't there in general). The waterline is too abrupt and the ice looks like it was cropped out of a larger scene. Too low-resolution to be sure.
MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.
FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, warming to 1941, cooling to 1964, warming to 1998 and cooling through 2011. The warming rate from 1964 to 1998 was the same as the previous warming from 1911 to 1941. Satellites, weather balloons and ground stations all show cooling since 2001. The mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8 C over the 20th century is well within the natural variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use effects"). Two science teams have shown that correcting the surface temperature record for the effects of urban development would reduce the reported warming trend over land from 1980 by half.
...if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story. Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told' - Telegraph
The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on "going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world".
--------
I believe there is a global climate change, but I also believe realistic facts. The AGW alarmists like Gore, and those Climategate emails, have tarnished their case, making them the biggest detriment to civil discussion.
Man has certainly added plenty of gases into the air over the last two centuries, however to lay all the blame on man for climate change is ridiculous.
I'd like to know what, if anything, man can actually do to cool the planet. Answer that, reasonably, and we'll have something worth a discussion.
Talk to the people in Bangladesh Watched a PBS show on it last night.
Pffft... Trust me - I know more about the Maunder Minimum, solar cycles, and other such things than the deniers. Astronomy is a hobby of mine, but thanks for the insults - that really helps your point.
What IS your point, anyway? Because the climate changes on its own humanity can't possibly affect it? You DO realize the insane lack of logic in that statement, right? It's no different than "forest fires can start on their own, so humanity can't cause forest fires."
Yes, the climate changes on its own - nobody is denying that. But it is folly to pretend that humanity CAN'T change it, as the science proves, AND that we should do nothing to prepare for climate change, regardless of who exactly is causing it. Or shall we bury our head in the sand and then be "surprised" when the oil runs out, droughts and storms sweep the land, and millions die needlessly?
Anyone who thinks humanity CAN'T change the climate to a level that has effects must also think the Dust Bowl didn't happen, deforestation is impossible, etc.
"...that we should do nothing to prepare for climate change, regardless of who exactly is causing it."
Please, Sir, enlighten us; just exactly what IS being done to "prepare for climate change"?
I hear a lot of rhetoric, but I don't see any real ACTION!
Isn't it time SOMETHING was done to prepare for the inevitable (to hear some tell it) sea level rise?
WHEN will we see some action?
After all, the SCIENCE is settled, and the SCIENTISTS are in complete agreement, right?
WHY is nothing being done?
Because of right wingers. Clinton signed the Kyoto protocol, but who failed to ratify it. As for us, Alberta's conservative government complained that enforcing the protocols was a provincial and not a federal matter. So the federal government left it to the Conservatives, and the Conservatives failed.
Oh, and then Harper, our evangelical Christian Conservative PM, withdrew from the Protocol altogether.
Friends of Science are an extension of the Alberta oil industry.
No analysis, just "computer model = 100% wrong". Good science there, yup.
Right wing fail again.
Same thing with AGW. Why it hasn't warmed in 17 years.
Left wing fail.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
