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It continues to be true that conservatives when it comes to politics are divorced from reality.
...having no proof of their insane conspiracy theories...
Lois Lerner has said it, the IG has said it and many other people at the IRS have admitted it. This is water under the bridge, it's an established fact that Conservative groups were targeted.
What has not been established is who was responsible for it and those people need to be held accountable.
It continues to be true that conservatives when it comes to politics are divorced from reality.
This Lois Lerner story will be yet another example of conservatives ignoring reality, having no proof of their insane conspiracy theories, and asking the same questions which have been answered while ignoring the answers to those questions.
I don't know how other posters do it. How do you take conservatives seriously?
[SNIP] Off Topic diversion
conservatives continue to drift further and further away from reality.
I can't be the only one who sees it.
The admission to criminal activity is there. They admitted it happened. The E-mails they have so far substantiate that fact.
What they are trying to get to the bottom of now, is who is the one that is going to go to jail and for once, be held accountable. We The People demand it.
76% believe the destruction of evidence was intentional. THAT'S BIG!!!
Now tell me, who is living in reality. It is not those here defending and justifying the IRS's criminal activities.
Lois Lerner has said it, the IG has said it and many other people at the IRS have admitted it. This is water under the bridge, it's an established fact that Conservative groups were targeted.
What has not been established is who was responsible for it and those people need to be held accountable.
This is just not true. I posted excerpts from the original IG report. I wish conservatives used the original IG report at least that report has some concrete facts about this thing. Instead conservatives ignore the content of the initial IG report.
Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists
conservatives for the most part reject the original IG report because it contains facts like those above.
The initial IG doesn't support the conservative narrative that the white House commanded this grand conspiracy.
Simply put conservatives don't use any actual facts to support their fantasy conspiracies. It is all fantasy and projection.
There is ample evidence that Lois Lerner was in contact with the IT department back in 2011 about her email account crashing. Do conservatives believed that was all faked to prevent investigations 3 years later?
Why is Lois Lerner the only person whose emails count?
Obviously, she was sending and receiving emails from other IRS employees what about their email accounts?
In fact to pull off this grand conservative fantasyland conspiracy there would have to be a lot of emails exchanges between many multiple employees at the IRS. Where are those emails exchanges?
Why has not one of those many multiple employees come forward and said I have proof that this took place?
Extremely motivated and dishonest conservative elected officials are investigating this incident and have found nothing that supports these conservative fantasyland conspiracies.
Evidently, conservatives believe that President Obama has super powers that enable him to avoid any and all damaging facts from being released about multiple conspiracies.
Somehow all the IRS employees are so loyal to or afraid of President that not one has come forward. Evidently President Obama based on conservative conspiracies can just disappear any emails or any paper trail from being released about this issue.
And yet conservatives persist in believing these insane conspiracies.
I can't be the only one who sees it, because conservatives continue to drift further and further away from reality.
It continues to be true that conservatives when it comes to politics are divorced from reality.
This Lois Lerner story will be yet another example of conservatives ignoring reality, having no proof of their insane conspiracy theories, and asking the same questions which have been answered while ignoring the answers to those questions.
I don't know how other posters do it. How do you take conservatives seriously?
They don't care about data, they dont care about policy outcomes. Rank and file conservatives have no legislative agenda other than being upset with "welfare" and are consumed with these fantasy conspiracies on Everything from the IRS, to Berghdahl, to Benghazi, to the border situation, to Fast and Furious, to the shooting at fort hood, to etc.
When it comes to politics conservatives think in conspiracies.
Global climate change is a conspiracy of scientists to destroy America. conservatives really believe that crazy crap.
Remember when conservatives were insisting that Russia was going to march through Europe and reestablish the old Soviet Union.
Putin was this terrifying figure who was just like Stalin who was going to cause WWIII and how Putin wrestled bears blah, blah, blah.
Now you see the same hyperbole over Iraq. ISIS is worse than the Taliban and Al Qaeda combined. ISIS according to conservatives are like the super Taliban/Al Qaeda.
conservatives continue to drift further and further away from reality.
I can't be the only one who sees it.
You've posted ZERO facts related to Lerner and the IRS scandal. Exactly what I expect from you.
Here are some facts you can hide from:
-Her emails get lost due to a hard drive crash, just after she learns that Republicans are on to her targeting scheme.
-The only emails lost are the ones coincidentally pertinent to the investigation in regards to other alleged conspirators: White House, Democrats Congress Members, etc...
-The only emails lost are the ones coincidentally pertinent to the investigation in regards to the timeline, 2009 to 2011. So if the email was not pertinent to the investigation by time or recipient, it was not lost...how convenient.
-She admits that the targeting was wrong, yet it does continue after she says it has stopped.
-She admits that the IRS was asking inappropriate questions (ie what are your members' prayers about), but the IRS kept asking these inappropriate questions from her very own office, with her name on it AFTER she had said it was wrong and had already stopped.
-She takes the 5th after saying she was innocent.
-She claims that she was pressured to do something about Tea Party money in the election.
-She sent an email out saying that the Tea Party matter was dangerous and was hoping that another branch of government could save the day.
-She claimed that the inappropriate line level targeting was started by line level employees in Cincinnati, but:
A) The line level Cincinnati employees produced evidence that DC told them to do it.
B) Targeting occurred from coast to coast, line level people in Cincinnati can't order offices coast to coast to do a policy shift.
C) An IRS attorney said the order to target came from an Obama appointee in DC
-Lois Lerner against regulations improperly contacted the FEC directly about conservative groups.
Side related matters:
-Under oath the IRS Commissioner said he had all of Lenrner's emails saved to a server - now we are to believe that they were never saved to a server, but to a single hard drive.
-The IRS knew the computer crashed since 2011, but waited well over a year to mention it when they were forced to hand them over, knowing that congress wanted the emails.
-Of the groups flagged for using conservative sounding words, 83% were conservative. Of those groups flagged 100% of the groups actually targeted with an audit were conservative and all of these groups were asked inappropriate questions. How is it that only conservative groups were audited with this program?
-President Obama said there was not a smidgen of corruption BEFORE the investigation and evidence was gathered.....seems a bit premature from a law professor who should know how these things work.
- The IRS illegally leaked confidential IRS data of conservatives to left-leaning media.
-IRS employees were breaking the rules by campaigning for Obama on the job to citizens dealing with the IRS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman
Are you honestly going to suggest that when the emails of a central figure in investigation are potentially missing this isn't something you should inform the investigators about especially when they have been waiting for half a year at that point?
Besides the fact by sometime in April he was fully apprised that they were in fact gone. If this was such a secret why was Treasury and consequently the WH made aware of it?
Exactly...and the guy gave testimony under oath that they had those emails and were reviewing them 10 months before he told us that they were lost in 2011 days after the IRS was notified it was being investigated.
You would remember someone telling you that you might have just perjured yourself (committed a crime).
This is just not true. I posted excerpts from the original IG report. I wish conservatives used the original IG report at least that report has some concrete facts about this thing. Instead conservatives ignore the content of the initial IG report.
Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists
conservatives for the most part reject the original IG report because it contains facts like those above.
The initial IG doesn't support the conservative narrative that the white House commanded this grand conspiracy.
Simply put conservatives don't use any actual facts to support their fantasy conspiracies. It is all fantasy and projection.
There is ample evidence that Lois Lerner was in contact with the IT department back in 2011 about her email account crashing. Do conservatives believed that was all faked to prevent investigations 3 years later?
Why is Lois Lerner the only person whose emails count?
Obviously, she was sending and receiving emails from other IRS employees what about their email accounts?
In fact to pull off this grand conservative fantasyland conspiracy there would have to be a lot of emails exchanges between many multiple employees at the IRS. Where are those emails exchanges?
Why has not one of those many multiple employees come forward and said I have proof that this took place?
Extremely motivated and dishonest conservative elected officials are investigating this incident and have found nothing that supports these conservative fantasyland conspiracies.
Evidently, conservatives believe that President Obama has super powers that enable him to avoid any and all damaging facts from being released about multiple conspiracies.
Somehow all the IRS employees are so loyal to or afraid of President that not one has come forward. Evidently President Obama based on conservative conspiracies can just disappear any emails or any paper trail from being released about this issue.
And yet conservatives persist in believing these insane conspiracies.
I can't be the only one who sees it, because conservatives continue to drift further and further away from reality.
The admission to criminal activity is there. They admitted it happened. The E-mails they have so far substantiate that fact.
What they are trying to get to the bottom of now, is who is the one that is going to go to jail and for once, be held accountable. We The People demand it.
76% believe the destruction of evidence was intentional. THAT'S BIG!!!
Now tell me, who is living in reality. It is not those here defending and justifying the IRS's criminal activities.
You are in total fantasyland. Do you understand the meaning of words? There has been no admission of criminal activity. There has been no investigation that contends criminal activity.
You are flat out making that up.
If conservatives actually read the initial IG report, they'd find facts like these
To determine if organizations other than those specifically identified in the inappropriate criteria were processed by the team of specialists, we reviewed the names on all applications identified as potential political cases.18 Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists.
This is why conservatives make extremely vague references to that initial IG report, because the content if the report doesn't at all support conservative fantasies about this incident.
This is just not true. I posted excerpts from the original IG report. I wish conservatives used the original IG report at least that report has some concrete facts about this thing. Instead conservatives ignore the content of the initial IG report.
Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists
Read that again, "According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements,". That's not what the IG is saying, that's what the IRS was claiming.
This is from the IG clarifying his testimony, I suggest you read it:
From our audit work, we did not find evidence that the criteria you
identified, labeled "Progressives," were used by the IRS to select potential political
cases during the 2010 to 2012 timeframe we audited. The "Progressives" criteria
appeared on a section of the "Be On the Look Out" (BOLO) spreadsheet labeled
"Historical," and, unlike other BOLO entries, did not include instructions on how to refer
cases that met the criteria. While we have multiple sources of information corroborating
the use of Tea Party and other related criteria we described in our report, including
employee interviews, e-mails, and other documents, we found no indication in any of
these other materials that "Progressives" was a term used to refer cases for scrutiny for
political campaign intervention.
Based on the information you flagged regarding the existence of a "Progressives"
entry on BOLO lists, TIGTA performed additional research which determined that
six tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 having the words
"progress" or "progressive" in their names were included in the 298 cases the IRS
identified as potential political cases. We also determined that 14 tax-exempt
applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 using the words "progress" or
"progressive" in their names were not referred for added scrutiny as potential political
cases. In total, 30 percent of the organizations we identified with the words "progress"
or "progressive" in their names were processed as potential political cases. In
comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea
Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were processed as potential political cases during
the timeframe of our audit.
You've posted ZERO facts related to Lerner and the IRS scandal. Exactly what I expect from you.
Here are some facts you can hide from:
-Her emails get lost due to a hard drive crash, just after she learns that Republicans are on to her targeting scheme.
-The only emails lost are the ones coincidentally pertinent to the investigation in regards to other alleged conspirators: White House, Democrats Congress Members, etc...
-The only emails lost are the ones coincidentally pertinent to the investigation in regards to the timeline, 2009 to 2011. So if the email was not pertinent to the investigation by time or recipient, it was not lost...how convenient.
-She admits that the targeting was wrong, yet it does continue after she says it has stopped.
-She admits that the IRS was asking inappropriate questions (ie what are your members' prayers about), but the IRS kept asking these inappropriate questions from her very own office, with her name on it AFTER she had said it was wrong and had already stopped.
-She takes the 5th after saying she was innocent.
-She claims that she was pressured to do something about Tea Party money in the election.
-She sent an email out saying that the Tea Party matter was dangerous and was hoping that another branch of government could save the day.
-She claimed that the inappropriate line level targeting was started by line level employees in Cincinnati, but:
A) The line level Cincinnati employees produced evidence that DC told them to do it.
B) Targeting occurred from coast to coast, line level people in Cincinnati can't order offices coast to coast to do a policy shift.
C) An IRS attorney said the order to target came from an Obama appointee in DC
-Lois Lerner against regulations improperly contacted the FEC directly about conservative groups.
Side related matters:
-Under oath the IRS Commissioner said he had all of Lenrner's emails saved to a server - now we are to believe that they were never saved to a server, but to a single hard drive.
-The IRS knew the computer crashed since 2011, but waited well over a year to mention it when they were forced to hand them over, knowing that congress wanted the emails.
-Of the groups flagged for using conservative sounding words, 83% were conservative. Of those groups flagged 100% of the groups actually targeted with an audit were conservative and all of these groups were asked inappropriate questions. How is it that only conservative groups were audited with this program?
-President Obama said there was not a smidgen of corruption BEFORE the investigation and evidence was gathered.....seems a bit premature from a law professor who should know how these things work.
- The IRS illegally leaked confidential IRS data of conservatives to left-leaning media.
-IRS employees were breaking the rules by campaigning for Obama on the job to citizens dealing with the IRS.
Exactly...and the guy gave testimony under oath that they had those emails and were reviewing them 10 months before he told us that they were lost in 2011 days after the IRS was notified it was being investigated.
You would remember someone telling you that you might have just perjured yourself (committed a crime).
Oh my another conservative who is in fantasyland. I supplied the only facts I have read in this thread which comes from the IG report
To determine if organizations other than those specifically identified in the inappropriate criteria were processed by the team of specialists, we reviewed the names on all applications identified as potential political cases.18 Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists.
This kills your fictional beliefs. The majority of your facts are conjecture and projection. Facts are provable.
Again it is a fact that Lois Lerner was in communication with the IT department back 2011 well before she was being investigated about her email account crashing. That's a fact.
It is also true based on logical thinking that Lois Lerner's emails can't be the only person whose email account would matter if there was this grand conservative conspiracy.
Lerner had to be receiving and sending emails to other IRS employees what about their email accounts?
Why can't motivated and dishonest conservatives investigators find out anything concrete?
Why hasn't there been an email chain outside of Lois Lerner?
Why have zero IRS employees come forward and supplied the correspondence that proves that this was all a planned conspiracy?
These are the questions that sane people ask to get to reality. conservatives don't ask those questions. They just burrow further into fantasyland.
I can't be the only one who sees it because conservatives are drifting further and further away from reality.
This kills your fictional beliefs. The majority of your facts are conjecture and projection. Facts are provable.
It does not because you ae trying to attribute something the IRS was claiming to the IG.
Quote:
Again it is a fact that Lois Lerner was in communication with the IT department back 2011 well before she was being investigated about her email account crashing. That's a fact.
There was a letter sent by Dave Camp just ten days before this crash requesting those records.
Quote:
Lerner had to be receiving and sending emails to other IRS employees what about their email accounts?
The emails that are missing are the ones going to people outside the IRS.
Quote:
Why have zero IRS employees come forward and supplied the correspondence that proves that this was all a planned conspiracy?
As someone quite familiar with IT I can tell you that there is only three possibilities for losing that much data off a drive. Either there was severe physical damage to the platter, someone purposely corrupted it before the technicians got to it or the technicians are in on it. Go ask someone you trust yourself familiar with disk drives, they are going to tell you the same thing.
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