Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Apple has fallen so far for the tree....Ron I wish we had you as president....
I've known Rand was a flip flopper with absolutely no character ever since his campaign where he backtracked on the Civil Rights act to appease voters. If you are a man without principles then you are a man without principles. Nothing is going to change that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
Libertarians are usually just conservatives who want to pretend they aren't conservative.
There is virtually no difference between libertarians and conservatives when it comes to voting.
For one, you don't know anything about libertarians. Secondly, the nature of our election system leaves everyone with one of two choices, vote Republican, or vote Democrat. Neither is a good choice, but Why would Libertarians vote Democrat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73-79 ford fan
Little Rand is also open to an attack on Iran, and I see little Rand Paul has now flip flopped on drone attacks and now supports their use. His dad Ron also voted for the Afghanistan war so Ron Paul has little credibility for being anti-war.
This is a bit misleading. Ron Paul didn't vote for the Afghanistan war. He did vote for the authorization of force against terrorists. And he was largely opposed to the authorization but felt he ultimately had no choice. He ended up relenting to the idea that the government should be granted authority to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice.
The declaration was intended to only apply to "those nations, organizations, or persons he(the president) determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."
Basically, Ron Paul was skeptical of the declaration, but hoped that it would only be used for the purpose of bringing Bin Laden and crew to justice. Obviously that isn't what happened. So Ron Paul said this...
"There really is nothing for us to win in Afghanistan. Our mission has morphed from apprehending those who attacked us, to apprehending those who threaten or dislike us for invading their country, to remaking an entire political system and even a culture. "
I hope you don't call yourself a Libertarian, because at least Rand is being a real Libertarian on this issue. The Libertarian think tank CATO calls for open immigration, no controls whatsoever. That is pure Libertarianism in action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz;35241527
This is a bit misleading. Ron Paul didn't vote for the Afghanistan war. He did vote for the authorization of force against terrorists. And he was largely opposed to the authorization but felt he ultimately had no choice. He ended up relenting to the idea that the government should be granted authority to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice.
Fmr staffer: Ron Paul planned ‘No’ vote for Afghanistan invasion, staff threatened mutiny | The Daily Caller[/url]
The declaration was intended to only apply to "those nations, organizations, or persons he(the president) determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."
Basically, Ron Paul was skeptical of the declaration, but hoped that it would only be used for the purpose of bringing Bin Laden and crew to justice. Obviously that isn't what happened. So Ron Paul said this...
"There really is nothing for us to win in Afghanistan. Our mission has morphed from apprehending those who attacked us, to apprehending those who threaten or dislike us for invading their country, to remaking an entire political system and even a culture. "
I think your criticism of Ron Paul is unfair. Rand Paul on the other hand is just a typical Republican scumbag.
No matter how you twist it, a vote for that bill was a vote for war. I don't care what flowery rhetoric you use to fool your supporters, but he voted yes for war, end of story. This is also the guy who doesn't call pork barrel spending what it is, he calls it repatriating tax dollars. Could you get any more euphemistic? Who was it that said Ron Paul supporters would literally walk on broken glass for the guy? He was right
"Libertarian, Rand Paul, opens up to air strikes in Iraq"
Very presumptuous of you to assume that Libertarians consider Rand Paul as one of our own. He is not. Largely because his father is Ron Paul, Rand Paul is sometimes closer to the Libertarian point of view than other Republicans. But Rand Paul has long since sold his soul to the GOP. He's no Libertarian. Not by miles.
No matter how you twist it, a vote for that bill was a vote for war. I don't care what flowery rhetoric you use to fool your supporters, but he voted yes for war, end of story.
Look, I am not trying to defend the fact that he voted for the Authorization of force. He shouldn't have voted for it. But most of that opinion comes in hindsight. I certainly didn't feel that way a week after 9/11.
Keep in mind, only one person in both houses of Congress actually voted against the authorization of force. One, out of 535 people.
And she didn't even oppose the use of force. She just felt like the AUMF was too open-ended.
I think the bill wasn't as clear an authorization for an endless war in Afghanistan as you make it out the be. It merely gave the president the power to go after the terrorists who attacked us. I mean, who didn't want to go after the terrorists at that time? I know I did.
Ron Paul has since complained repeatedly about how the president overreached with the AUMF to justify endless wars which were based on lies.
I am not going to criticize Ron Paul because he voted to have the US military hunt down the murderers of 3,000 Americans. I will criticize him for either not understanding, or not articulating the idea that the AUMF was too open-ended and would lead to never-ending wars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
Who was it that said Ron Paul supporters would literally walk on broken glass for the guy? He was right
Look, I'm not trying to defend Ron Paul simply because I like him. I just find your criticism to be unreasonable. You are framing the issue as if Ron Paul was some kind of warmonger in 2001, who later flip-flopped on the issue.
That just isn't what happened.
I hate to call you a liar, but what you are saying is an act of grossly misrepresenting the facts to intentionally deceive people. In hopes that they will believe something that is obviously not true. I will defend any politician, even people I don't even like, if anyone decides to misrepresent the facts as you have.
I'm here in both a search of truth, as well as for the dissemination of truth. If you aren't going to be honest, why speak?
The fact is Rand is the closest thing to a libertarian who could actually win in 2016.
First, Rand simply isn't going to win in 2016. You might as well get it out of your head.
I think Ron Paul stands a better chance of winning in 2016 than Rand Paul.
Secondly, even if Rand Paul tilts slightly libertarian, he is hardly a libertarian. And he seems to become less and less of a libertarian every day. If he even ran for president in 2016, with the fact that he is increasingly isolating real libertarians, he would have to run as a centrist to win.
The point of the Ron Paul movement was to move the Republican party towards the libertarian party. If Rand Paul chooses to prostitute his principles out in hopes of winning an election, he will actually destroy all the good Ron Paul has done.
I think Ron Paul stands a better chance of winning in 2016 than Rand Paul.
That is beyond absurd. I have been voting for Ron since 1988..he can't win. He can't get the nomination. He is a great messenger...now it is time to compete in elections.
Rand Paul is the most libertarian candidate out there with the possibility of winning. Most likely we will end up with a Democrat again.
Liberty has been stolen one small piece at a time and it has taken a century to get this far down the road to serfdom. We will not reclaim liberty overnight.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
