Making solar cheaper than coal (March, voters, capitalist, working)
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Bird deaths occur on any development. there is a minor increase due to the high light intensity zone near the target. Doubt it will prove to be a big deal.
The equipment will become almost bullet proof over time. This is not difficult electronics. We know how to build this stuff. China has been cheating a bit on quality...they will either get it right or lose market share.
I'll provide the links then, since you do not seem to know what type of solar arrays I'm referring to. Coal-fired power plants do not kill birds like this, in fact some of their smokestacks are home to peregrine falcons. so what type of new unforeseen problems would even larger solar arrays like these produce?
A new report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service finds that solar facilities in California are acting like “mega traps” that kill and injure birds. As a result, “entire food chains” are being disrupted.
USFWS’s National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Laboratory studied three solar farms in Southern California: Desert Sunlight, Genesis Solar and Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (ISEGS). Two-hundred and thirty-three different birds from 71 species were found over the course of a two-year study.
Environmentalists have hit out at a giant new solar farm in the Mojave Desert as mounting evidence reveals birds flying through the extremely hot 'thermal flux' surrounding the towers are being scorched.
After years of regulatory tangles around the impact on desert wildlife, the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System opened on Thursday but environmental groups say the nearly 350,000 gigantic mirrors are generating 1000 degree Fahrenheit temperatures which are killing and singeing birds.
Partisan lie? LOL Whatever, so now this is political?
Just read any article promoting solar, they detail all the "dirty" aspects of coal, even you. I'm only pointing out that no form of energy is perfect, including solar and wind.
I would imagine any article promoting anything would highlight the pros, not the cons. Pointing out no form of energy is perfect is fine, just learn to do it in a way that doesn't come off as partisan and ignorant.
"Nothing is perfect, no matter how the proponents of green energy try to make people believe."
^^That simply isn't cutting it.
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...as if the mining and manufacturing and operation of solar panels on the global scale is NOT quite dirty.
Never claimed otherwise. I did claim that mining a product, only to combust it is a lot more dirty. At least ores can be recycled, although coal ash can be used as a replacement for specific types of cement.
I'll provide the links then, since you do not seem to know what type of solar arrays I'm referring to. Coal-fired power plants do not kill birds like this, in fact some of their smokestacks are home to peregrine falcons. so what type of new unforeseen problems would even larger solar arrays like these produce?
A new report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service finds that solar facilities in California are acting like “mega traps” that kill and injure birds. As a result, “entire food chains” are being disrupted.
USFWS’s National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Laboratory studied three solar farms in Southern California: Desert Sunlight, Genesis Solar and Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (ISEGS). Two-hundred and thirty-three different birds from 71 species were found over the course of a two-year study.
Environmentalists have hit out at a giant new solar farm in the Mojave Desert as mounting evidence reveals birds flying through the extremely hot 'thermal flux' surrounding the towers are being scorched.
After years of regulatory tangles around the impact on desert wildlife, the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System opened on Thursday but environmental groups say the nearly 350,000 gigantic mirrors are generating 1000 degree Fahrenheit temperatures which are killing and singeing birds.
Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
The issue I see no one addressing is grid stability.....Renewables are at best a intermediate generation resource of which only a fraction of their production can be dispatched into the market. On top of that they are not really synchronized into the grid... The cannot make reactive power and only push some energy into the system. Without base load plants operating 24/7/365 ANY renewable resource will not provide immediate load response at 60 hz
I would imagine any article promoting anything would highlight the pros, not the cons. Pointing out no form of energy is perfect is fine, just learn to do it in a way that doesn't come off as partisan and ignorant.
"Nothing is perfect, no matter how the proponents of green energy try to make people believe."
^^That simply isn't cutting it.
Never claimed otherwise. I did claim that mining a product, only to combust it is a lot more dirty. At least ores can be recycled, although coal ash can be used as a replacement for specific types of cement.
And yet it's called "green energy" or "clean energy" by the proponents of wind, solar and biofules. No, they aren't trying to make people believe that wind and solar are clean, they only call it that.
And yet it's called "green energy" or "clean energy" by the proponents of wind, solar and biofules. No, they aren't trying to make people believe that wind and solar are clean, they only call it that.
Well I guess if you were one of those people who didn't realize practically everything we made had harmful byproducts and processes. The difference between fossil fuels and "clean energy" is wind and solar don't emit any harmful emissions or particulate matter. Wind and solar are clean energy sources as well, since they don't emit any harmful byproducts save for manufacture of the initial solar panel and turbine. Hence the "green" or "clean" moniker.
The issue I see no one addressing is grid stability.....Renewables are at best a intermediate generation resource of which only a fraction of their production can be dispatched into the market. On top of that they are not really synchronized into the grid... The cannot make reactive power and only push some energy into the system. Without base load plants operating 24/7/365 ANY renewable resource will not provide immediate load response at 60 hz
You really haven't been paying attention if you don't think grid stability isn't being discussed. Theres a ton of research about it, and regular discussions about it. We're a ways from it being a serious issue however.
I'll provide the links then, since you do not seem to know what type of solar arrays I'm referring to. Coal-fired power plants do not kill birds like this, in fact some of their smokestacks are home to peregrine falcons. so what type of new unforeseen problems would even larger solar arrays like these produce?
A new report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service finds that solar facilities in California are acting like “mega traps” that kill and injure birds. As a result, “entire food chains” are being disrupted.
USFWS’s National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Laboratory studied three solar farms in Southern California: Desert Sunlight, Genesis Solar and Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (ISEGS). Two-hundred and thirty-three different birds from 71 species were found over the course of a two-year study.
Environmentalists have hit out at a giant new solar farm in the Mojave Desert as mounting evidence reveals birds flying through the extremely hot 'thermal flux' surrounding the towers are being scorched.
After years of regulatory tangles around the impact on desert wildlife, the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System opened on Thursday but environmental groups say the nearly 350,000 gigantic mirrors are generating 1000 degree Fahrenheit temperatures which are killing and singeing birds.
The death toll reported was 233 birds. This compares to the roughly 500,000,000 killed by buildings and the 2,000,000,000 slain every year by cats.
I suspect such a problem can be much more easily dealt with than the cats.
For the solar industry, which we are specifically talking about? Check again.
So because we don't have the manufacturing process and technology NOW to make non-carbon based materials..... Just f*ck it.....? That's basically what you are saying.....
You don't replace the battery in you Accord over the life of the car?
And how exactly is the carbon footprint 6x the fossil fuel counterpart.......?
I can't argue with the absurd, nor reason with the unreasonable.
Between your inability to hold a rational conversation
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Originally Posted by dv1033
Go on.....
So go on........
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Originally Posted by dv1033
Go on....
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Originally Posted by dv1033
Don't be dumb.
Don't be dumb.
Don't be dumb.
(which makes you sound like a self trained parrot BTW) and jumping to conclusions, you can't seem to grasp what was actually said, and feel the need to challenge everything, including facts.
BTW, I am well invested in solar and LED, so you also got that wrong. Feel free to continue making your own irrational connections and assumptions. It's really quite entertaining.
Blah blah. So youre still having nothing but partisan dribble and no facts.
You need a significant capital investment to put solar on your house, could be as much or more than a low income family makes in a year so they simply cannot afford it. The subsidies are passed onto the taxpayer and the green credits are passed onto the ratepayer, anyone without one of these systems is subsidizing those that can afford it. That would include low income people.
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Most solar is being installed on a large industrial scale. Like I said, ignorance.
The larger plants also enjoy generous subsidies and because of mandates can sell that power at a rate significantly higher than coal or natural gas. For example that wind farm in Mass. ended up with a 15 year contract for about 18 cents a kWh with an annual increase of 2.5% which will put it at about 30 cents when the contract expires. That's wholesale, wholesale costs for electric or natgas is about 4 cents. The extraordinarily costs of that electric are passed onto the ratepayer. The most affected of course would be low income people.
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