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I doubt you are out there acting like a sovereign citizen that doesn't have to abide by the laws of this country...well until you get arrested for it and thrown in jail.
As I said before, I am merely a messenger, a teacher. I'm not here to fight anyone. Nor do I even need to fight anyone. Nor would it serve my purposes to break any law.
I'm only here to empower people to think for themselves and make their own decisions. I'm here to remind people that all governments exist not for the benefit of the people, but merely as a benefit for economic interests(and that has always been the case). That when people vote, they aren't voting for what is good and right, first and foremost they are voting for their economic interests. And that without a limitation to government, voting becomes nothing more than a tool for people to extract as many benefits for themselves as they can at the expense of everyone else.
And I'm not blaming the people. It isn't the people's fault that they are effectively forced to vote, in hopes of receiving their "fair share" of the economic pie. The people aren't to be blamed at all. It is the system that is flawed and corrupt. But what can you do about the system? Can you change it? Sadly, that answer is "No".
I think most people see the problems in our government, and in society for that matter. They see the lying hypocrite politicians, they see how government officials regularly abuse their power. They see how the police go overboard and usually have zero consequences whatsoever. They see a nation divided, and in moral decay.
But recognizing a problem is not the same as proposing a solution. Nor does even proposing solution actually mean there is a solution.
Every single day we find out another abuse of power by our government. We come here and what happens? Do we look for solutions? No. We get to play the Republican v. Democrat blame game. And that is all we can do. Since if you believe in the system, and choose to work within the system, all you can really do is pick a side. The natural reaction of a democrat when a democrat is doing something wrong, is simply to say that the Republicans are just as bad. And the same goes in the other direction as well.
My libertarian friends think they are going to somehow fix the system simply by voting. That somehow they can solve all of the problems through the same process that caused all the problems to begin with. That somehow, if people were only more educated, they would vote "properly".
As much as I like libertarians, that sort of belief is either naive or delusional. And I think they know it. These libertarians quote Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but don't really listen to anything those men said.
They pretend that libertarians can even get elected as their own party. And while they may complain about how the Supreme Court has distorted the meaning of our constitution. In what way will any libertarian anywhere actually be able to stop them? The next president will not be a libertarian. And Scalia is really, the last hope for anything close to libertarianism on the courts for a long time, maybe forever(and he is 78 years old).
To explain what I'm trying to say, understand it like this. While it would be impossible to repeal the 14th amendment if it was put up for a vote(not a single legislator would vote for it). It would also be impossible to pass the 14th amendment if it wasn't already on the books. If you start looking at our government and our constitution in a similar manner. You'll realize that, while a libertarian has almost no ability to change the government through the system we have now. On the other hand, if we were to have to "start over", the only possible outcome would be something of a libertarian government.
I have proposed calling for a constitutional convention. I have proposed declaring that the 14th amendment is unconstitutional. I have proposed a whole slew of Civil Disobedience. I have proposed everything from secession of states to secession of people. I have proposed boycotting the vote and purposefully allowing left-wing radicals to win(as to create chaos). And I am open for any of your ideas.
I'm just saying, the only way going forward for libertarians, is simply to start over. You are delusional if you believe anything else. And the same basic argument goes for conservatives as well. Conservatives are losing the argument because they don't seem to understand that they have created the mechanisms that will ensure their defeat.
The largest anti-libertarian and anti-conservatism institution in existence, is the government run public school. The irony is that, conservatives actually created public schools in an attempt to brainwash immigrants into becoming Americans. For some reason, conservatives are too stupid to realize that everything they have created or allowed the government to do is working against them. Everything the conservatives are fighting against, is inevitably going to happen in the future. And they don't seem intellectually capable of even understanding why.
As I said before, I am merely a messenger, a teacher. I'm not here to fight anyone. Nor do I even need to fight anyone. Nor would it serve my purposes to break any law.
I'm only here to empower people to think for themselves and make their own decisions. I'm here to remind people that all governments exist not for the benefit of the people, but merely as a benefit for economic interests(and that has always been the case). That when people vote, they aren't voting for what is good and right, first and foremost they are voting for their economic interests. And that without a limitation to government, voting becomes nothing more than a tool for people to extract as many benefits for themselves as they can at the expense of everyone else.
And I'm not blaming the people. It isn't the people's fault that they are effectively forced to vote, in hopes of receiving their "fair share" of the economic pie. The people aren't to be blamed at all. It is the system that is flawed and corrupt. But what can you do about the system? Can you change it? Sadly, that answer is "No".
I think most people see the problems in our government, and in society for that matter. They see the lying hypocrite politicians, they see how government officials regularly abuse their power. They see how the police go overboard and usually have zero consequences whatsoever. They see a nation divided, and in moral decay.
But recognizing a problem is not the same as proposing a solution. Nor does even proposing solution actually mean there is a solution.
Every single day we find out another abuse of power by our government. We come here and what happens? Do we look for solutions? No. We get to play the Republican v. Democrat blame game. And that is all we can do. Since if you believe in the system, and choose to work within the system, all you can really do is pick a side. The natural reaction of a democrat when a democrat is doing something wrong, is simply to say that the Republicans are just as bad. And the same goes in the other direction as well.
My libertarian friends think they are going to somehow fix the system simply by voting. That somehow they can solve all of the problems through the same process that caused all the problems to begin with. That somehow, if people were only more educated, they would vote "properly".
As much as I like libertarians, that sort of belief is either naive or delusional. And I think they know it. These libertarians quote Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but don't really listen to anything those men said.
They pretend that libertarians can even get elected as their own party. And while they may complain about how the Supreme Court has distorted the meaning of our constitution. In what way will any libertarian anywhere actually be able to stop them? The next president will not be a libertarian. And Scalia is really, the last hope for anything close to libertarianism on the courts for a long time, maybe forever(and he is 78 years old).
To explain what I'm trying to say, understand it like this. While it would be impossible to repeal the 14th amendment if it was put up for a vote(not a single legislator would vote for it). It would also be impossible to pass the 14th amendment if it wasn't already on the books. If you start looking at our government and our constitution in a similar manner. You'll realize that, while a libertarian has almost no ability to change the government through the system we have now. On the other hand, if we were to have to "start over", the only possible outcome would be something of a libertarian government.
I have proposed calling for a constitutional convention. I have proposed declaring that the 14th amendment is unconstitutional. I have proposed a whole slew of Civil Disobedience. I have proposed everything from secession of states to secession of people. I have proposed boycotting the vote and purposefully allowing left-wing radicals to win(as to create chaos). And I am open for any of your ideas.
I'm just saying, the only way going forward for libertarians, is simply to start over. You are delusional if you believe anything else. And the same basic argument goes for conservatives as well. Conservatives are losing the argument because they don't seem to understand that they have created the mechanisms that will ensure their defeat.
The largest anti-libertarian and anti-conservatism institution in existence, is the government run public school. The irony is that, conservatives actually created public schools in an attempt to brainwash immigrants into becoming Americans. For some reason, conservatives are too stupid to realize that everything they have created or allowed the government to do is working against them. Everything the conservatives are fighting against, is inevitably going to happen in the future. And they don't seem intellectually capable of even understanding why.
I think there is a way ahead, but people are going to have to start thinking outside the box.
Quite the long winded rant to say you will sit on your hands and wait for others to do what you want to see done. It is a great example why nothing that you want to see happen will happen.
The people calling for secession like to play armchair quarterback and hope someone else will do the work for them.
Quite the long winded rant to say you will sit on your hands and wait for others to do what you want to see done. It is a great example why nothing that you want to see happen will happen.
The people calling for secession like to play armchair quarterback and hope someone else will do the work for them.
Gotta love the way this poster replies to a whole page of legitimate ideas with, "I won't respond to a single point you made and will dismiss them based on stereotypes."
We could split the country in two and maintain a currency union like Europe does.
I have come to believe that splitting the country in two may indeed be for the best.
What would be the point of splitting into two new countries?
You just don't get it.....do you?
This one said it best....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander_Crews
More proof that you don't think independently. The whole world is liberals vs conservatives to you.
Go back and read the OP.....if you don't understand, then move on to another thread.
This is about relationships.
What happens when you are in a relationship of any kind at any level, and the relationship turns toxic?
You get out out -- secede -- from the relationship.
Again, the type of relationship doesn't matter.
Many personal relationships of any kind end simply because one person changes -- starts growing or yearns to grow -- and the other person is frightened, scared, jealous, angry or whatever.
You grow up and realize that hanging in bars and drinking and partying all the time isn't fun anymore, but your wife feels differently. That creates conflict, because she's scared of change. She's frightened even more, when you have a Come-to-Jesus Meeting and read the Riot Act telling her that if she wants to party and have fun, she's going to have to get a job to fund her activities.
Which is just like many States.....they want to grow, and they are realizing that their Future Success would be greater without the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78
Well kiddo, if you think secession is the way, then knock your socks off. I won't be joining you in that losing fight, neither will most Americans who like being Americans.
So, you're a Nationalist? That would you make a National Socialist.
You take a job and then out-grow that job, but your co-workers, your supervisor, the higher-ups, maybe even the company itself and what it does commercially are holding you back.
So, you're going to stay and be miserable out of loyalty?
That's stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander_Crews
You also did not address a SINGLE question asked by the OP, you just want to trash "the other team".
If this thread is just "more conservative whining", your posts are nothing more than partisan hackery.
Good point and well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
I've seen very little in the way of pro-union argument, amounting to much less than the sum of anti-union argument.
That's because they only thing they have is the knee-jerk USA! USA! USA! chant.
The Constitution creates a federal republic for a reason.
A federal republic allows all States to grow independently at their own speed. It also allows States to fail, and inevitably one or two will....it's a statistical reality.
You no longer have a federal government, rather you have a national government that hinders the growth of States.
And I when talk of growth, I'm talking about the success and prosperity of the people in a given State.
The national government runs the US exactly like it runs the education systems.....dumbs everyone down to the lowest level.
People are getting tiring of that very quickly.
And for the Stu-tards.....if the point of secession is for the people to grow and prosper without interference of Big Brother National Government stealing everything you create and giving it to others to destroy, then why jump ship and take 5 dead bodies with you?
In other words, the point of abandoning any relationship is to dump the dead-weight that's dragging you down.
You people need to stop thinking in Black & White and start thinking in terms of success, growth, wealth, prosperity, and freedom....
Go back and read the OP.....if you don't understand, then move on to another thread.
This is about relationships.
What happens when you are in a relationship of any kind at any level, and the relationship turns toxic?
You get out out -- secede -- from the relationship.
Again, the type of relationship doesn't matter.
Many personal relationships of any kind end simply because one person changes -- starts growing or yearns to grow -- and the other person is frightened, scared, jealous, angry or whatever.
You grow up and realize that hanging in bars and drinking and partying all the time isn't fun anymore, but your wife feels differently. That creates conflict, because she's scared of change. She's frightened even more, when you have a Come-to-Jesus Meeting and read the Riot Act telling her that if she wants to party and have fun, she's going to have to get a job to fund her activities.
Which is just like many States.....they want to grow, and they are realizing that their Future Success would be greater without the US.
I think we may have flown right by each-other, lol. I agree COMPLETELY with all of this. The part you quoted from me was about the people who try to turn it into a left vs. right thing to avoid the actual topic of whether or not a government needs consent, and whether people have the right to rule themselves or not.
I don't think that papers signed by dead people make any group of people beholden to continue the relationship with the federal government.
I actually think it would be prudent to split on our terms rather than facing a soviet style collapse which would net the same general result.
America "as it exists" has been and is being destroyed all the time. America as it existed in 1950 has been partially destroyed, just as America as it existed in 1900 was partially destroyed, just as America in 1785 was partially destroyed. The evolution of a country is much like capitalism - a process of creative destruction.
This makes no sense. I'll be very specific.
Ok your philosophical clap trap about the America as it exists being creatively destroyed whatever you mean by that is not the same as America losing physical land and having its borders redrawn and population shrink. Such changes would destroy America as it exists. SMH.
Ok your philosophical clap trap about the America as it exists being creatively destroyed whatever you mean by that is not the same as America losing physical land and having its borders redrawn and population shrink. Such changes would destroy America as it exists. SMH.
You do realize that in the time the country has existed, the physical land and borders have changed many times, right.... right?
You do realize that in the time the country has existed, the physical land and borders have changed many times, right.... right?
Yes, they grew. Only once did anyone try to shrink the size of the US within the country and they failed. I doubt you guys would do any better when you have no leaders to lead you.
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