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Old 06-24-2014, 09:30 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 2,657,533 times
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It is wrong to knowingly create life that is certain to go uncared for. Yes.

But every child born in the US can be cared for, if its parents either have enough income to provide the basics, or have room temp IQs and can apply for benefits (more extensive for children than adults, as is only right.) So I do not believe it to be wrong to have a baby if you need WIC, or to have 4 kids who will have to share bedrooms and go to public school, when you could have only had 2 and given them a fancier lifestyle. Not wrong. Maybe not a good idea, but not wrong.

When I say "cared for," I mean a roof, bathroom facilities, enough calories per day to facilitate growth (can be rice and beans!) a few sets of clothes and some kind of basic education.

It does NOT have to mean a bedroom per kid, cell phones, premium foods, summer camp and paying college tuition.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,191,594 times
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Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
IMO.....if you can not support children......you should not have them.

if you cant support your children, then you should not get any public assistance at all.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:35 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,758,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohirette View Post
It is wrong to knowingly create life that is certain to go uncared for. Yes.

But every child born in the US can be cared for, if its parents either have enough income to provide the basics, or have room temp IQs and can apply for benefits (more extensive for children than adults, as is only right.) So I do not believe it to be wrong to have a baby if you need WIC, or to have 4 kids who will have to share bedrooms and go to public school, when you could have only had 2 and given them a fancier lifestyle. Not wrong. Maybe not a good idea, but not wrong.

When I say "cared for," I mean a roof, bathroom facilities, enough calories per day to facilitate growth (can be rice and beans!) a few sets of clothes and some kind of basic education.

It does NOT have to mean a bedroom per kid, cell phones, premium foods, summer camp and paying college tuition.
Well that's exactly what they are getting, what they and Liberals believe is owed to them, and is what Democrats give to them and promise them in order to get votes.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,266,317 times
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Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now View Post
Lots of people I know have lots of children but make very little money. When I asked them why they had so many children when neither the mother or father made much money, they basically told me that money and income should not be a consideration when deciding how large your family is. They say children are a gift from God and if the children are born everyone should welcome them to the world and society will help support them. They believe that even though they are poor financially they have just as much right to bring lots of babies into the world as someone who is rich.

If you are parents would you agree that society (taxpayers) have a obligation to help bring up your children because our country needs a younger generation from all kinds of people (rich and poor)? Would your financial situation impact your decision to have a larger family? In other words, should only rich parents be able to have a very large family?

(* The other side would say that it is wrong to have babies if they know the taxpayer is going to support them)
You should not have children you can't support. I think it's immoral. It's basically stealing.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:36 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,758,185 times
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Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
if you cant support your children, then you should not get any public assistance at all.
I do not believe allowing the children, who did nothing wrong and had no choice in the matter, starve and suffer is the answer to the problem either.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:40 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,179,016 times
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I wouldn't say it's morally wrong, but it's certainly not a good idea.

Of course, we're talking about normal human behavior. In the history of human existence, the poor have always birthed more children than upper class people.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:40 AM
 
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There is another dimension to all of this.

There is a lot of overlap between the group that is completely pro life/anti abortion, and the group that says hard and fast, it is wrong to have kids if you need assistance. But you KNOW that despite people's efforts, women are going to conceive.

99% birth control success amongst millions of poor women still means hundreds of accidental babies.

So what then? It is "wrong" to abort the baby, but it is "wrong" to have it if she can't care for it herself. Where is the give and take? This is real life. What should she do?

These scenarios are where I start to sympthize with the leftist claims that right leaners "hate poor people." Well, we don't. We want everything doing the very best that they can, and know that many aren't. But with a large population, there will always be thousands who DID do the right things, and are still in a bad situation.

Can you honestly just ignore that?
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:42 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,329,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now View Post
You will be able to support them with all the money that will be given by taxpayers though. (And my poor friends and relatives think that it is the taxpayers responsibility to do so. They say, " I am a good mother and I provide a service to the country by having babies that will grow up and add to our society. Just because I can't support them without societies' help should not matter.)
True.....we call them "the breeders".
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:44 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,329,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohirette View Post
There is another dimension to all of this.

There is a lot of overlap between the group that is completely pro life/anti abortion, and the group that says hard and fast, it is wrong to have kids if you need assistance. But you KNOW that despite people's efforts, women are going to conceive.

99% birth control success amongst millions of poor women still means hundreds of accidental babies.

So what then? It is "wrong" to abort the baby, but it is "wrong" to have it if she can't care for it herself. Where is the give and take? This is real life. What should she do?

These scenarios are where I start to sympthize with the leftist claims that right leaners "hate poor people." Well, we don't. We want everything doing the very best that they can, and know that many aren't. But with a large population, there will always be thousands who DID do the right things, and are still in a bad situation.

Can you honestly just ignore that?
All babies that are "accidents" come from having sex.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:47 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 2,657,533 times
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Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
All babies that are "accidents" come from having sex.
Except for when they are on purpose.

You didn't answer the question, though, unless you were saying don't have sex if you are poor, in case you are in the percentage of birth control failures. Now THAT I find extreme.
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