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Old 06-27-2014, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,419,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
That isn't because of the price of oil. That's because of high taxes and new technology won't change that. If someone came up with a way to run cars on worm waste the tax would simply transfer to that.

It is precisely because of taxes and the exact same reasoning the politicians use here - raise taxes to decrease demand and increase interest in alternatives.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:04 AM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,419,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
It's pretty naive to assume that price elasticity will drive oil prices up at a rate that encourages society to adopt green technology naturally and without disruption. It's more likely that without government policy intervention, we will run up the oil price, and then do R&D, meanwhile massive energy cost increases will cause corresponding social despair.
I half agree. I think in the US because we are a developed and reasonably wealthy country there will be little interruption because of subsidies and the fact that we can afford to pay a little more. Because of Europe's policies it will be even less of an issue there. The disruption will come mostly to emerging markets and that is where you will and are seeing the push for R&D and efficiency since the governments there are in less of a position to subsidize fuel and the people living their are in less of a position to buy it. I would say this is happening already particular in Brazil.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,019,978 times
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I saw "The Road Warrior."

Good thing I'm a geezer, now. I'll never know.

Let's invade some countries and keep them and their oil and refineries. Why do we always just leave?
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:08 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Yes. Anything the government subsidizes they are going to want to control and screw up. No way would they leave $2 fuel alone. They would say that since we pay $4 now we will just add a $2 tax.
They can't get 12 cent increase in the fuel tax now which hasn't been increased since the 90's, that's a hot potato neither party wants to touch.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:08 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
It is precisely because of taxes and the exact same reasoning the politicians use here - raise taxes to decrease demand and increase interest in alternatives.
Yes it is the same reasoning that politicians use but politicians are only interested in their next election not in solving problems.

If you stop using oil the alternatives will be taxed. We have already seen this. Politicians want to add a surtax to hybrids because they do not use enough oil and revenues fall.

When the alternative is not cheaper because of increased taxes the desire to turn to them is eliminated.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:12 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
I would say this is happening already particular in Brazil.
Brazil has sugar cane as a feedstock for ethanol.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:14 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
They can't get 12 cent increase in the fuel tax now which hasn't been increased since the 90's, that's a hot potato neither party wants to touch.
They aren't going to stop. Now they are calling for a tax by the mile. As I said, a tax on hybrids. Some states have built in increases that don't have to be voted on again. It's based upon a percentage of the cost of a gallon of gas. As an example 5%. Gas at $2 has a 10 cent tax. Gas at $4 has a 20 cent tax.

No vote required.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:17 AM
 
30,065 posts, read 18,670,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
Honest question. Please no snide comments.

Back in the 1880s, it took a barrel of oil to get 100 barrels out of the ground. Nowadays, it takes a barrel of oil to get 20 out of the ground in the middle east, a barrel for 10 in places like Texas, and a barrel for 5 in places like Alaska and Canada.

Do you think the fossil fuel supplies will last forever?

Please do not mention global warming. Let's just assume it doesn't exist.

Of course not

What do we need to do? Expand domestic coal and oil production and exploration on federal lands. Tax the profits 5% for oil produced on federal lands and earmark those funds for alternative energy infrastructure.

Logic and patience in developing alternative fuels is what is needed to foster and develop other sources of energy- not some fanciful hoax.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:18 AM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,419,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Brazil has sugar cane as a feedstock for ethanol.
Yes, but they only began moving toward that during a fuel crisis of the 1970s with mandatory blending. Russia will be insulated because of their gas supplies, but other major emerging economies like Indonesia which has reached peak oil in their country, India, China, Vietnam, etc. will all get hit by a fuel crisis first and harder then the US or Europe and there will be pressure in those places first to push R&D before it becomes an issue in the US. Now they might find country specific solutions like Brazil did, or the might find broader solutions, either way its not certain the US or Europe will be hit by a dramatic energy issue.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:24 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They aren't going to stop. Now they are calling for a tax by the mile. As I said, a tax on hybrids.
Fees and taxes need to evolve with technology. We pay for roads with fuel taxes, by not supporting a per mile tax on these vehicles you're actually supporting subsidizing them.

To be perfectly fair all vehicles should be taxed per mile with consideration made for the weight of the vehicle.
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